Adding Zinc to Oil?

[Keithc8]

You do not want the API Sm on the oil at all. These oils are made for late model new engines. They use three engines to test the oil. 2 that haveover head camshafts and no lifters and a V6 Chevy that has a wopping 2200 lbs open pressure. These oils have to meet the government standards and have a lot of detergent and very low zinc in them. The zinc and other additives that you find in the Penn and Jo Gibbs oil will clog up the conveter sooner as well and they have to warranty them for like 150,000 miles now.
You do not want to run any oil with the APi sticker on it in a high perfmance engine or for sure in a flat tappet engine. Buy a damn oil made for a high performance application and be done with it. Everybody has an opinion on this but I have lived it and seen how it works by dyno testing, running and taking apart engines. The new oil is crap for an early engine or high performance engine. I have inspected engines that we have ran the Jo Gibbs oil in and swear by it. Less wear on the cylinder, bearings, cam and everyother part in the engine.
What I always find funny is these guys that are going to buy a 10,000.00 to 40,000.00 engine and then complain about the oil cost. The good stuff is only about 30 to 40 percent more and will make your engine last longer and generally do not have to change as often.
Good luck, Keith Craft

[MaSnaka]

Where do you buy Jo Gibbs oil? Because you don't see the stuff on the shelf at Pep Boys or the like.

John

[chucks1]

Amazon. I get my Brad Penn there. Joe Gibbs is available as well from numerous sources. Just look for the best price and whichever listing is eligible for free shipping.

[Cobrajames]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

Where do you buy Jo Gibbs oil? Because you don't see the stuff on the shelf at Pep Boys or the like.

John

Keith Craft has a very good price on Joe Gibbs Racing Oils.

[madmaxx]

Joe Gibbs website is contradictory jusl like the oil debate. First it refers to clearances only the builder would know then it does an about face and uses horsepower and temperature for viscosity. Using that 95 percent of us should be using 5w20. I guess you pick and choose and in the in 99 percent of our cars Castro gtx with break-in additive would work. Avg price is $16 per quart, blah, blah

[tirod]

According to the API information I read - they use a Chevy and Toyota flat tappet motor as part of the SM (now SN) certification. Again - read the latest spec, and as already said by others, they reduced the zinc - not eliminated it. I'm certainly not saying engines didn't fail - but engine builders aren't forensic scientists, and don't make a living examining blown motors. They build them and let others do that.

It's been a long term issue for decades, newly started motors scuff lifters, and lobes fail. Engine assembly lube generously used on high stress engine parts has been recommended for a long time. I doubt these guys suddenly all stopped using it - so what else could account for a significant number of lifters failing if the engines were using oil with SOME zinc and assembly lube, too?

There's other friction points, the reduced zinc hasn't affected rockers, valves, piston pins, or skirts - in flat tappet OR roller tappet motors. Those other friction points haven't changed.

I hearing a lot of "Blame the zinc" when it was the lifters all along. And the guys who imported them took a big hit in business back then, too. Those in the know quit buying. There's a lot more to it than zinc, but it's easy to blame. And it makes some people a lot of money to sell that zinc!

[ratsnst1]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

donnieR32 Don this has been an on going issue for the last 10 years when Zinc and Phosphous was drop to smaller amount in motor oil. Your top FE builders where losing motors on break-ins.
Here's my 2 ways, first I run a rolletta 15w-40 diesel oil in the motor. I run it for half the races and change it. I also have 12 quarts of oil for the motor with lines, cooler, oil pan and 3 quart accusump. 15 years same block and no failures of bottom end. 8 years with 452 and 7 years with 484 setup. I have done my own test and have found that adding a bottle of lucas oil suppliment will stop dry starts after motor has been sitting for a couple of days. I run this in all my cars and trucks. Before running lucas used to get rocker noise for 5-15 second if vechicle sat for couple of weeks. Added this and no noise after sitting for couple of months. This is a clinging oil. Does it cost HP, YES. Does it keep my motor quiet, yes. You must pour this in slow to get it to fix with the oil. Here's point #2
Point 2 Accusumps, every car should have one. The motors would last 300-500k miles if no dry starts happened. If for nothing else that startups. Here's why, turn this on and let the oil pressurize the motor and you have 20-40 psi of pressure, no dry starts. The other thing is the rockers and the last things to get oil pressure in the motor. IMO the other problem is the oiling system of some motors. I have seen over the years the farthest rods from the oil pump are the last to get pressure and it is not the same pressure until the system stablize. You read 50-100 psi pressure on the gauge but in truth you may be getting only 10-50 psi in the last section of the motor. There have been test done on SOHC and found that there was a 35-40 psi drop between block and heads. 85% of wear and tear is done on startups. An accusump cost about $400.00 and if protected will last 10-20 years as long as the tube is not damaged. Finding a good safe place on the car is the trick. As far as oil pressures in an FE motor and what they should be with an HV oil pump, that's another thread. Good oil in any brand for high milage and a bottle of lucas. I have and do use EOS from GM too when breakin a new motor. Good Luck Rick L.

do mean shell rottella right, great oil I use it in my pete.

[Keithc8]

The new oils with the AMP marking just do not work on flat tappet enigne with 120 to 150 seat pressure and over 300 lbs open pressure. The engine they use to test with have no spring pressure andn no camshaft to speak of. I al tired of beating a dead horse, I do not care what you use I just know what works on high perforemance engines and makes them wear the best.
Personally if you do not buy an engine from me use what you want, if you buy and engine from me I will not warranty unless you use the Joe Gibbs. They also have the conventional oil that we use call Hot Rod oil that is about 6.50 to 7.00 a quart. Works great, I use it in my wife's 55 Chevy, My cobra's and my older Mustangs. I use the synthetic in my 20,000.00 race engine that I turn 9000rpms and have had zero problems in three years. I rebuild and everything looked great. This is a dirt circle track engine that will get run much harder than most of you will ever run your engine.
We sell the Jo Gibbs and believe in it fully. Like I said run what you want as long as you do not get the engine from me and want it warrantied. We can agree to disagree and it will not be the first time or the last time that it has happened.

[madmaxx]

Keith,

What viscosity of joe Gibbs would you use in your 351 stroked to 427?

Thanks

[MaSnaka]

I checked out the Amazon site and found it, Thanks. Conventional Hot Rod oil 15/50 and 10/30 if you want to follow Keith's recomendation. Also many more for other applications.

John

[RET_COP]

There has been a recent upsurge in special oil for flat tappet engines filling a niche we all have been complaining about. Like Keith said buy the darn oil and be done with it. You don't need to add anything. Here are some you can search. JOE GIBBS HOTROD Oil, AMSOIL Z-Rod oil, BRAD PENN Grade1, LUCAS HOTROD & CLASSIC. There all out there now. Viscosity will depend on your clearances.

[mike harter]

Joe Gibbs 10/30 or 10/40 syn. hotrod oil is about the best

[madmaxx]

Why would you buy their oil and not follow their viscosity information?

Originally Posted by mike harter

Joe Gibbs 10/30 or 10/40 syn. hotrod oil is about the best

[Steve Gallegos]

I just got off the phone with an Amsoil rep regarding oil changes. I use 20-50 with Zinc. He told me that with this type of oil that I can go 15 to 20,000 miles without an oil change. Just change the filter about every 2 to 3,000 miles. any comments

[Steve Cassani]

Steve,

I'm reticent to follow the reps advice. I don't believe he's mistaken the capability of the oil to lubricate for many miles longer than other brands. The problem is that most of us accumulate 15-20,000 miles over three to four years, with six months of storage each year. Contaminents that would otherwise remain suspended settle to the pan and anywhere else oil accumulates. Moisture condensation becomes an issue for stored cars. I am not confident the rep has taken these factors into account.

Moisture compromises the ability of an oil to work as it should, especially in the first minutes after starting a car that has been stored for several months.

[donnieR32]

Originally Posted by Steve Cassani

Steve,

I'm reticent to follow the reps advice. I don't believe he's mistaken the capability of the oil to lubricate for many miles longer than other brands. The problem is that most of us accumulate 15-20,000 miles over three to four years, with six months of storage each year. Contaminents that would otherwise remain suspended settle to the pan and anywhere else oil accumulates. Moisture condensation becomes an issue for stored cars. I am not confident the rep has taken these factors into account.

Moisture compromises the ability of an oil to work as it should, especially in the first minutes after starting a car that has been stored for several months.

This is what I would think. Not that I'm an expert, but this sounds like good advice.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Steve Gallegos

I just got off the phone with an Amsoil rep regarding oil changes. I use 20-50 with Zinc. He told me that with this type of oil that I can go 15 to 20,000 miles without an oil change. Just change the filter about every 2 to 3,000 miles. any comments

The reason for oil changes is the oil gets contaminated over time/miles,not that it wears out per say......once it reaches a certain level of contamination, it is not doing it's job...

With that said,a buddy of mine used to work on an offshore rig for Shell Oil, they had 7,6000 hp gas turbine engines and 6, V-12 diesel engines. he would take oil samples at certain hourly intervals and have them checked, that's how they determined when to change the oil... One year he began doing the same thing with his daily driver, a late 70's Ford Ranchero with a very mild 351-W he built.....He was using Shell Rotella T 15/40 in the Ranchero and he kept it well tuned, mostly highway miles, he found that he could go 12,000 miles between oil changes....He didn't like going that long between changes, but he would go 7,500 miles........

I would guess the way most folks use their Cobra's, they would have the same level of contamination in 4,000 miles, condensation from sitting is the worse type of contamination as is short drives.....On long extended highway/interstate drives, the condensation has time to "boil off" the oil,thereby keeping the oil cleaner for longer periods.....

David