Lead Additive/Octane Booster

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

OK, I'm probably going to open up a can of worms here but an old racing buddy of mine suggested moth balls as a way to increase the fuels octane rating, I have not personally done this so I do not know for certain if it works or not. I did some research on the Internet and it appears to have been used before but you have to be cautious of the chemicals used to create the moth ball, the type of mothballs that were referred to have Naphthalene as the ingredient.

This is an old racers trick and while it "might" raise the octane,it is similar to most snake oil stuff they sell on tv and in "speed shops".....if you have the right moth balls and enough of them, you "could" possibly raise the octane on a tank of gas by .1 !!!!!!!!!so you'd go from 93 octane to 93.1 octane,hardly worth it and mostly old wife's tale.....

[rpatton3]

Aren't you really trying to protect your priceless iron SOHC heads? Use lead. I will leave the octane argument to the experts.

[ERA Chas]

I suspected as much. Don't contact him-you didn't get the truth when you gave him money; why should he square with you now?
And yes you can change timing and wake that thing up. Being 'happy with the power you have' is not a reason to have an inefficient engine Lou.
Bump the initial to 12 as a start with 36 total and test. If it likes it, go up 2 degrees at a time until it's hard to crank. If it runs-on, kill it with clutch pedal.
If you're unable to do this work, take it to a local dyno-tuner and have them put the correct curve in the distributor-all in by 2600 or so.
It will respond MUCH better but not make so much power to scare you-and you'll get better mpg as a bonus.

[BAsque1]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I suspected as much. Don't contact him-you didn't get the truth when you gave him money; why should he square with you now?
And yes you can change timing and wake that thing up. Being 'happy with the power you have' is not a reason to have an inefficient engine Lou.
Bump the initial to 12 as a start with 36 total and test. If it likes it, go up 2 degrees at a time until it's hard to crank. If it runs-on, kill it with clutch pedal.
If you're unable to do this work, take it to a local dyno-tuner and have them put the correct curve in the distributor-all in by 2600 or so.
It will respond MUCH better but not make so much power to scare you-and you'll get better mpg as a bonus.

Chas:
Thank you for your advise, its funny that you addressed the mpg, because since I got the car the mpg has been a stable 11-12, recently it has gone down to 8-9 and I do see the spark plugs a bit black when in fact that is telling me that I am running too rich.

We check the levels in the carb bowls and that is fine. I will be installing tomorrow an electric gas pump, so I will take the time to recheck the timing following your idea.

Let me ask you this; why do the specs for this engine states the 8* BTDC @ 750 rpm idle? I have literature that says that. That said I have also read that for a single 4 V carb it is 4* and for dual quads is 8*, which is it. At times I feel a bit frustrated that you try all the options you read about and still there is something different. I also read as you said that it goes all the way up to 36*. BTW I do not have vaccumm advance on my dist.
Is there any source (from Ford or reliable) that specifically states the settings? I must assume that I have the factory cam.
Tks
Lou

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by BAsque1

Chas:

Let me ask you this; why do the specs for this engine states the 8* BTDC @ 750 rpm idle? I have literature that says that. That said I have also read that for a single 4 V carb it is 4* and for dual quads is 8*, which is it.

That depends of the source or accuracy of the 'literature' you have. Is it an original shop manual for FE engines?
Regardless, the 4 decades since the engines' inception have brought hundreds of improvements (even for mild street cars) through racing and the work of specialist engine builders, like those present here.
Even if your engine is as it left Ford decades ago, tuning improvements as I outlined (without major part changes) will yield a better-running engine.
It is accepted knowledge today that these engines (with factory configured combustion chambers) operate best at 12 to 22 initial and a total of 36 to 38, in by 2600. Regardless of what was printed decades ago.
And changes to the design of cams, cylinder heads and induction can now easily add 100+ HP.
Try a dyno tuner to get the induction right (not so rich) and reset your timing and you'll see a big improvement in response and efficiency.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by BAsque1

Let me ask you this; why do the specs for this engine states the 8* BTDC @ 750 rpm idle? I have literature that says that. That said I have also read that for a single 4 V carb it is 4* and for dual quads is 8*, which is it.

Lou, here is a scan from my original 1964 Ford Shop Manual. This should be viewed as a curiosity only -- I wouldn't use it to set my tune up specs (and I don't, and I have a "kinda/almost/maybe" close to original engine build). In fact, I run the original 427-8V low riser cam in my engine (which was different than the 427-4v cam). Once the medium riser was available, the low riser 8v cam was only available as a service item. Ford's thinking was that the medium riser made up for the low riser's need for additional cam duration. If you asked the dealer to put it in for you though on your medium riser, he would, of course, do it... for a fee. Take these specs with a grain of salt. The 427-8v did not have 18" of vacuum at idle. Also, read the footnotes as to timing. Always read the footnotes... that's where you hide the truth, in plain sight. FWIW, I run 10 degrees at idle, 25 mechanical, all in by about 2800RPM. Total of 35 degrees, with aluminum heads, stroked and bored, solid flat tappet. Very, very similar performance to the original 427-4v medium riser with the old 8v cam put in as an option. They've come along way with cams since then, but that's the way I wanted it and, as Chas. will tell you, I mostly use the car to drive to fine restaurants anyway....

[BAsque1]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Lou, here is a scan from my original 1964 Ford Shop Manual. This should be viewed as a curiosity only -- I wouldn't use it to set my tune up specs (and I don't, and I have a "kinda/almost/maybe" close to original engine build). In fact, I run the original 427-8V low riser cam in my engine (which was different than the 427-4v cam). Once the medium riser was available, the low riser 8v cam was only available as a service item. Ford's thinking was that the medium riser made up for the low riser's need for additional cam duration. If you asked the dealer to put it in for you though on your medium riser, he would, of course, do it... for a fee. Take these specs with a grain of salt. The 427-8v did not have 18" of vacuum at idle. Also, read the footnotes as to timing. Always read the footnotes... that's where you hide the truth, in plain sight. FWIW, I run 10 degrees at idle, 25 mechanical, all in by about 2800RPM. Total of 35 degrees, with aluminum heads, stroked and bored, solid flat tappet. Very, very similar performance to the original 427-4v medium riser with the old 8v cam put in as an option. They've come along way with cams since then, but that's the way I wanted it and, as Chas. will tell you, I mostly use the car to drive to fine restaurants anyway....

Tks Patrick
Lou

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

LFWIW, I run 10 degrees at idle, 25 mechanical, all in by about 2800RPM. Total of 35 degrees, with aluminum heads, stroked and bored, solid flat tappet.

Pat,
Like Lou, you're leaving a lot of low-speed response and a little torque on the table.Especially you with increased displacement.
I don't think that advancing such mild cams makes any difference. They don't have any top-end to shift downward.
Ever try going up on initial in increments? You'd feel a difference. The motor feels sharper, less sleepy. More fun to drive.
Make it your next 'fiddle' project-like the wheels. You can always go back to your numbers if it scares you...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Pat,
Like Lou, you're leaving a lot of low-speed response and a little torque on the table.Especially you with increased displacement.
I don't think that advancing such mild cams makes any difference. They don't have any top-end to shift downward.
Ever try going up on initial in increments? You'd feel a difference. The motor feels sharper, less sleepy. More fun to drive.
Make it your next 'fiddle' project-like the wheels. You can always go back to your numbers if it scares you...

I have tried going up and down a bit with total timing, and 35 seems like the sweet spot. That's what I set it to at 3000 RPM. With the 25 degree cam in the MSD that just sets me at 10 at idle; I don't actually set the timing at idle. I use the tried and true silver and blue springs, which brings it all in reasonably early. I could switch in the 20 cam, reset it at 3000 RPM to 35, which would translate down to 15 at idle. That's a fiddle project. But if I'm "getting on it," you know, in between fine restaurants, I'm invariably over 3000 RPM anyway, so all the timing is there.