Hard Starting 427

[cobralee]

I know this is a common problem but I'm wondering what some of you guys have done. On my 427 top oiler, when it gets a little warm, I have a hard time starting it. I understand this is typical of FE engines. I've got a 1000 CCA Optima battery, 0 guage battery cables, mini hi-torque starter, etc. My battery is located in the trunk, so it travels a little bit. I know I can retard my timing but rather not. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Ron

[ERA535]

cobralee:

MSD has just what you need - a box that retards the timing until 800 rpm allowing easy starting without having to change your timing. Summit has them, I think they are around $65

[Brent Mills]

Is that an add on for their ignition systems, or is it a standalone unit?

[ERA535]

Brent:

It only works with magnetic pick ups.

Part # is MSD 8984 and it sells for $89.95 from Summit.

Pat

[Brent Mills]

I've got a standard distributor with an ignitor module (magnetic pickup). Does it need to be MSD's or will any work?

[ERA535]

I would think so --I will be calling Summit to order some stuff tomorrow - if you like I will ask.

[427Aggie]

I can tell you that I don't have a problem starting after warmup. Actually it starts a heck of a lot easier.

I have also been told that the best way to time an FE is to advance just until it won't start anymore and then back it off a bit. You may have it too advanced

Matt

[ERA535]

Cobralee:

I guess I was jumping to conclusions about your problem...does it crank fine but not start? Or does it crank just a bit and then the starter cranks really slowly for a second or two and then speeds up - like a timing problem. These are two separate problems.

427Aggie:

That really isn't the best way to time an FE. Each engine is a little different but the usual range of timing will be from 10 degrees to 16 degrees initial timing and 32 degrees to 42 degrees total.
A good general recomendation would be 12 initial and 36 total. That is what I am at and it cranks freely hot or cold - even with 11.5 to 1 compression and a standard starter.

Good luck.

[cobralee]

Thats for the input. When starting, it does not turn over easily. It struggles as though I have 14.1 compression. I only have a 10.1. When timing, I did advance it until it wouldn't start, then I back off a little. Only happens when warm, about 180-190 degrees. I will look into the MSD box.

Thanks again for the input.

[Cobranut]

Cobralee,

I've ever had trouble cranking mine. It's a little cold-natured at first, but warm it usually starts right away.

I have a Crane Hi-6 DSR ign box, and it may have a built-in start retard, I don't remember.

Anyway, I run 22 to 24 deg initial and 40 to 42 deg total advance with 12.5/1 comp, so if anyone should have a hot start problem, it would be me.

I also have a CVR mini-starter. Reasonably priced and it does the job.

Later

[WestCoastBill]

Next time it's hot and starts hard I'd do this. Retard your timing( you can pull and ground the coil wire as a way to do the same test), see if that helps. If it doesn't than you'll have narrowed down the list of possible causes. If it is the problem, check your timing, and then consider using a retarder if you feel it's needed. But first I would suggest that you check/clean (even if they look clean) all connections from the battery to the starter. If you are running a solenoid, other than the one on the starter(most minis have thier own), eliminate or at least insulate it. If this is a new problem on a new motor or starter, check for proper starter installation(does it need to be shimmed to stop binding with the flywheel). If all else fails, have your battery and starter tested. High performance applications die young and sometimes even new parts start out bad. Bottom line is what some of the other guys are telling you, their motors start fine and yours should to.
Bill

[cobralee]

Thanks again for your responses. I'll try and narrow doen the problem and let you know what I come up with.

Ron

[Pete Wolff]

Cobra Lee,

A common problem asociated with putting the battery in the trunk is a poor ground . I have had a similar problem in the past and have found that running a cable from neg side of the battery to one of the starter mounting bolts will fix your hot start problem.

[cobralee]

Pete-

Currently, I have my negative ground going to my frame, about a 15" run. I know the scattershield is always a good ground, but I figured the longer run would be a disadvantage. I'll try this and see how it works out.

Thanks

[Coloradocobra]

You may want to add a short heavy ground from the frame to the engine or bell housing if you do not have one already. Your ground path to the engine could be running from a sidepipe hanger or something similar if you do not have a heavy ground wire to the engine since your motor and transmission mounts are effectively insulators. Smaller engine to frame grounds are fine for electricals but inadequate for starters.

Just a thought,

Gary

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

I vote Ground problem too!
George

[Cobranut]

Dang, I should have thought of that in my first post.
15 years ago I had a bad ground in a '73 Cougar that I figured out when cranking the car with the hood up. The air cleaner snorkel wiggled over against the inner fender and sparks flew. That was what I call a CLUE.

A couple years ago, I had the same problem with my motorhome. I even had the danged starter rebuilt before I figured it out. I finally started tracing it with a DVM and found I had several volts between the engine and chassis during cranking. The ground strap connection had corroded. Cleaned it up and no more troubles.

Why does my brain reboot every so often and I have to learn everything again?

Hope this fixes your problem,

[ERA535]

Cobralee:

You initially stated that this only happens after it is warm....

You are either running a choke or are giving it a few pumps before cranking it cold. Therefore it will start quickly when cold.

I still think it is a timing issue......let us know, OK?

Pat

[cobralee]

ERA-

Actually, when hard starting, the block is hard to crank over. In the morning, it cranks over easy and starts. After it gets warm, it has a hard time just cranking over. I'm going to extend the ground wire to my scattershield first to see how that goes.

I will let you all know.

Thanks.