Meatball thread

[RACERAL]

I am sure everybody knows the MK4 Factory 5 cars body was digitized off of Dick Smiths #198 which was a REAL COBRA. SO Detroit Bill, If you should look at a MK4 I doubt you will find any with a FE motor. I have not but when I build my next one it will have a FE. Its sitting in the garage now. Just have to get the F5
The ERA with the FE seems to be the way to go for you.... It is among the VERY best IMHO. You will not go wrong. BUt whatever you do, take a seasoned VET Cobra guy with you to check it out. Have fun

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

So I am looking to get into a cobra by spring. I am leaning towards a used Superformance, newer, say chassis number greater than 2000 lower miles.

When looking am finding lots of Roush 427 small blocks. Certainly nothing to sneeze at but I like the old school look of a big block. Obviously posting this in the FE forum will slant the replies.

Am I off to think this way?

I suspect that since you are asking this question, you may not be 100% satisfied with anything but an FE motor eventually. A 351 can be dressed up to resemble an FE and if all you want is the general appearance that may be enough. Every owner has their own level of obsession with originality from minimal to using straight slot trim screws just as AC did in building the originals. It's something you will eventually have to settle with yourself.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by DanEC

A 351 can be dressed up to resemble an FE and if all you want is the general appearance that may be enough.

Uhhh, no matter how much lipstick you slap on that pig, the "oink" is still gonna give her away.

[rodneym]

Rodknock,
In all fairness, when you say some angles of CSX's and ERA's don't look right, don't you mean 'familiar'? The originals were hardly consistent.

patrickt,
I've seen that invitation from ERA before and I'm a wee bit surprised he hasn't gotten any (or at least posted them). If I ever get the gumption, I'll take some pics my...all hell. Who am I kidding. I'm tired.

[66gtk]

Guys,

As a photographer I know it is impossible to get that comparison poster or whatever you want to call it to be even close to legitimate unless the following conditions are met:

1. Each car must be rolled into the exact same spot on a perfectly flat/level surface
2. Camera must be on a tripod in a fixed position with a fixed focal range ( at least 150 mm would be a good start) for each shot.

If any one of these conditions are changed, you aren't comparing apples to apples.

I have access to a late model SPF and ERA, but wouldn't be able to take the photos until spring. At that time, I'd be happy to share the result. Wish I had a CSX3xxx car available to me, but I don't.

[Ron61]

I am not sure that this is relevant to this thread but no special construction car that is turn key can be legally registered in California. We have to use the SB-100 numbers and I know of a couple of people that had their titles pulled and couldn't register the cars in this state because they got them turn key. So the turn key thing is no big thing for people in the Republic of California.

Ron

[Detroit Bill]

I spent some time this morning reading the ERA website. They make some good points about their frame. It appears to me that getting a rolling chassis from them could take some time, quite a bit of time.

Best I can tell Superformance dealers charge around $7,500 for labor and parts to install the engine and trans. My thought is to do the install myself which would make maintaining the car much easier. I will have been all over it and familiar with the systems. I would take the money I saved and dump it into an aluminum FE block. Pond actually makes a cast iron block that I would like to understand more about but that is another story. I would talk to a builder about the engine but the goal would be 500++ HP, lots of grunt not to peaky of a powerband with room to grow. So in a couple years if I get regrets on the power I can bump the cam and intake and step it up.

Based on all the comments I am going to make a list and call ERA to get a sense of their timing and pricing

A little more about me. I founded and own a manufacturing company. We have some fabrication mojo. I have a degree in engineering and put it to practice every day. I worked in the car industry for 14 years. I worked for one of the Big three (when there was a big three) part of the time as a field rep which included the technical side. So the "technical" part of a replica Cobra is well within my wheelhouse. Reading the Superformance engine trans install guide there was a picture and reference to a Turn signal relay, click click.... I have not seen one of those in years. I have been involved in the building of several engines both small block and big block Chevy's. This was when you needed 12 to 1 compression and roller everything to make power with 110 octane gas. The car I drove to high school was a big block Camaro that I upgraded and maintained. So I consider myself pretty technically adept..

My concerns on the Cobras are that they are essentially motorcycles. I want the roll bars to be functional and I want shoulder belts. Superformance may be questionable in the roll bar area we will see. I am in Michigan, there is a Superformance dealer nearby. I am going to inspect a rolling chassis today, Tuesday. They said they will put it on a lift for me so I can see how the car is made. I got an engine install guide for a Superformance and is relatively easy. Pretty straight forward, really. What appeals to me is I could have a running car by spring and know the chassis is sound. An ERA built by someone could be great or not so great. At least with a used Superformance, I know where the chassis was built.

[Mongoose930]

Hi Bill,

This is strictly my opinion but I have been addicted to Cobras for over 40 years and over the last 25+ years, I have visited several Cobra manufacturing facilities and attended several Run & Gun and SAAC events.

If you already know that you want an FE in your Cobra, that leads me to believe that over time, you will continue to want to make your car as accurate as possible. My first Cobra was a Contemporary which I had always thought was a very accurate replica. Once you have an eye for what the original cars look like, you quickly realize that a Contemporary Cobra is really not that accurate. The SPF body was splashed off of the Contemporary body so that would probably make it even less accurate compared to an original. Not to say that the Contemporary or SPF aren’t beautiful cars but that does not mean they are accurate when compared to an original Cobra.

If you are not going to purchase a Shelby, Kirkham, Hi-Tech or Exact, then I would suggest giving ERA serious consideration. They may have a square tube frame (as does the SPF) but beyond that, ERA makes an extremely accurate and well-built replica.
I eventually sold my Contemporary and am currently building a Hi-Tech but I truly believe that had I initially purchased an ERA Cobra, I would still have it today.

Good luck with your decision and in the end, you really can’t go wrong with either the ERA or SPF Cobras.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

I would take the money I saved and dump it into an aluminum FE block. Pond actually makes a cast iron block that I would like to understand more about but that is another story. I would talk to a builder about the engine but the goal would be 500++ HP, lots of grunt not to peaky of a powerband with room to grow. So in a couple years if I get regrets on the power I can bump the cam and intake and step it up.

Assuming you are in Detroit, Barry Rabotnik, of Survival Motorsports, is just a half hour up the road in Township. He is an FE engine expert. Call him up, spend some time with him, and you'll end up having him build you exactly what you want. You may very well find that a seasoned iron block is what you want, not a Pond.

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

... there is a Superformance dealer nearby. I am going to inspect a rolling chassis today, Tuesday. They said they will put it on a lift for me so I can see how the car is made. I got an engine install guide for a Superformance and is relatively easy. Pretty straight forward, really. What appeals to me is I could have a running car by spring and know the chassis is sound. An ERA built by someone could be great or not so great. At least with a used Superformance, I know where the chassis was built.

You're not going to get what you want from ERA by spring. But, if you can bear the wait, what you get from ERA will not just be close to what you want, it will be 100% EXACTLY what you want, and the engineering will be superior to all other Cobras, and on a par with Kirkham. Do yourself a favor, hop a plane to CT and tour their facilities. Or, if you can't wait, get an SPF next week. And if you're lucky, you'll never realize what might have been....

[DanEC]

I guess it is fair to venture that you could stumble on a poorly assembled ERA somehow, although I think the majority are ERA finished and assembled rollers or finished, running cars. But even in the case of an owner-painted and assembled ERA (as I did) it would be pretty hard to mess one up. Everything is pre-fit and most of the equipment is pre-fit and in place when delivered. They come with a full front suspension, brakes, all fuel and brake lines, all panels. The wiring is not a do-it yourself kit but a factory type plug in wiring harness. The frame and body are a done deal (unless the owner decides to paint themselves) and tough as anything around. Most folks buy a pre-assembled rear suspension from ERA but a few hardy types do find a Jag rear suspension and rebuild and modify it to fit in the ERA cradle. I think for the most part on a used, owner-built ERA, if it has good cosmetics. passes a driving test and everything passes a functional test, about the worst you might find is a loose bolt or screw somewhere. Even on a factory assembled ERA or SPF there are typically a number of rebuilt assemblies and occassionally there is an issue with something. These cars do take some mechanical invovlement no matter what their origin. And as pointed out above, if still a concern, you can identify ERA-assembled from owner-assembed cars from the data plate or simply call ERA.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Even on a factory assembled ERA or SPF there are typically a number of rebuilt assemblies and occasionally there is an issue with something.

On a Superformance MK III ("427 Cobra") there are NO rebuilt or used parts or assemblies supplied from the factory. Now an ERA can be done with used or reman parts depending on the builder however you or ERA can use new pieces for most of the requirements (it may be tough to get a brand new Jag differential, I don't know) needed.

Now I have great respect to ERA and Peter is a really good guy who I always look forward to seeing at events, however the SPF and ERA really are pointed at different markets although there is occasional overlap. Yes, the SPF is targeted to the Windsor market however about 20% by my accounting are FEs. The factory supplies FE install parts, headers, etc. when specified.

The business model of SPF is different from ERA, we have dealers and inventory. ERA is pretty much build to order for rollers or turnkeys so the wait is longer. Right now we can do a MK III chassis custom order in about 120 days delivered.

In my experience most issues are minor on a factory build. And keep in mind these cars are basically from the "age of iron" so basic tools will resolve most problems other than powertrain or installer errors.

You will not go wrong with either, you are just looking a different answers to the question.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

On a Superformance MK III ("427 Cobra") there are NO rebuilt or used parts or assemblies supplied from the factory. Now an ERA can be done with used or reman parts depending on the builder however you or ERA can use new pieces for most of the requirements (it may be tough to get a brand new Jag differential, I don't know) needed.

Now I have great respect to ERA and Peter is a really good guy who I always look forward to seeing at events, however the SPF and ERA really are pointed at different markets although there is occasional overlap. Yes, the SPF is targeted to the Windsor market however about 20% by my accounting are FEs. The factory supplies FE install parts, headers, etc. when specified.

The business model of SPF is different from ERA, we have dealers and inventory. ERA is pretty much build to order for rollers or turnkeys so the wait is longer. Right now we can do a MK III chassis custom order in about 120 days delivered.

In my experience most issues are minor on a factory build. And keep in mind these cars are basically from the "age of iron" so basic tools will resolve most problems other than powertrain or installer errors.

You will not go wrong with either, you are just looking a different answers to the question.

I can't disagree with anything in this post. And, FWIW, it's taken me eight years, after having ERA build me a custom 427 to my exact specs, to get it to the point where I would now say it's 99.9% perfect. Remember, these are all hand built cars, and the "bug work out" time is going to be present on all hand built cars. Earlier this year, I drove by a beautiful new Pagani Zonda that had broken down by the side of the road. There is a little chance that most of us could do any "road side fix-ups" on that little gem. Funny, on that same stretch of road (which is not a place to drive fast or anything), I have seen a broken down Ferrari and Lamborghini (that's over 40 years) -- both looked brand new. Yes, they all have their temperamental moments, but that can add some spice to the mix, too, if you're so inclined.

[DanEC]

[quote=Mark IV;1332112]On a Superformance MK III ("427 Cobra") there are NO rebuilt or used parts or assemblies supplied from the factory. /QUOTE]

OK - that was a mistake on my part for not realizing they use newly manufactured differential components. My error.

[twobjshelbys]

If Authenticity is what you want then you should also consider the Shelby CSX4000/6000 series cars. They just announced their 50th anniversary edition of the 427 today.

But I promised I wouldn't try to detract you from Superformance. They are fine cars (if you fit in them, I didn't)

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

But I promised I wouldn't try to detract you from Superformance. They are fine cars (if you fit in them, I didn't)

Me either, that's why I now have BDR with an FE!


When I was at the OP's stage I went to the London Cobra show to get my head wrapped around the myriad of Cobra makes then made my decision.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Me either, that's why I now have BDR with an FE!


When I was at the OP's stage I went to the London Cobra show to get my head wrapped around the myriad of Cobra makes then made my decision.

I visited many car shows and Cars & Coffee every Saturday. Lots of different cars to look at and try on.

But it sounds like he wants to move fairly quickly so London would be an additional wait.

[Detroit Bill]

Nope I am not in that much of a hurry. I am going to contact the local Cobra club and see if I can look at some cars. Because I don't want a "kit" is slims the field. A Kirkham and Shelby don't interest me ether.

[Large Arbor]

Detroit Bill,

I am just a few hours South of you in Columbus if you want to look at an ERA with an aluminum FE 427. It will give you a feel for the quality of an ERA.

Phil

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

Detroit Bill,

I am just a few hours South of you in Columbus if you want to look at an ERA with an aluminum FE 427. It will give you a feel for the quality of an ERA.

Phil

I may take you up on that is it still rolling or is it up for the winter?

[Large Arbor]

It's still rolling if it gets to 45 degrees. I don't do the put up like Patrick. Only thing I have done is filled it with antifreeze as my garage is not heated. Started also the winter cleaning, polishing wheels, tightening bolts. If its dry, I'd fire it up and bring it out.

Phil