Setting Timing

[lippy]

I believe that with an MSD system you can't use a dial back timing light because of the multiple sparks. You want a simple one. I use the one I bought at Sears 25 years ago. Dead simple but works well.

[blykins]

You can use a dial-back.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by blykins

You can use a dial-back.

Thanks for clearing that up because that's all I have used for years, even on my old MSD setup.

[patrickt]

Come on, setting the timing on an MSD distributor is about as easy as it gets. You can use any timing light that works on it and, so long as you know what the bushing is that was put in it, you can just set the timing at idle and you'll know what the all in amount is going to be (yes, you should still check it though). Then just play with the springs until you find what you like. That's easier than changing a spark plug, and way easier that setting the valves, which takes some of us all day. You don't even get your hands dirty setting the timing and it's impossible to drop anything in the wrong place and ruin your day.

[Large Arbor]

Ok, I must confess to my screw ups. 1) I put the distributor button on backwards and tied to force the square old in the round slot, 2) When I pulled the distributor the oil pump drive came with it causing a (oh noooo!!) moment. I used a straw to put that back without dropping it into the oil pan. The mechanical advance was not working on the MSD 8594 Distributor thus making timing more difficult. I will have a new distributor tonight. I will drill two holes in the sides of the distributor cap to allow air to get to it hopefully reducing corrosion. Once the timing is set I have seal to replace where the driveshaft goes into the T3550 transmission. Once that is done, I also need to replace valve cover gaskets. That is my list!

Thanks to the most excellent dudes on this site, I may be able to avoid future mistakes. Thanks again folks for all the comments to this student.

Phil

[lippy]

Just what I read...

From MSD:
https://forums.msdperformance.com/ar...hp/t-7883.html
https://forums.msdperformance.com/ar...hp/t-9867.html

[blykins]

I've never had any issues using a dial-back, although I usually don't use one. I do get the "bouncy" timing every once in awhile, but it depends on the springs that are in the distributor, how small the distributor cap is (you can get spark scatter with a small cap), and how the distributor gear interacts with the cam gear.

Just used one a few weeks ago. Was helping my engine builder buddy dyno a SBC that a random guy brought in. It had no timing marks on the balancer, so we verified TDC/zero, and used a dial-back. Timing was rock solid, no scatter. That was with an MSD distributor and box.

May depend on the brand of light, but I know a few guys who run dial-backs with their MSD stuff.

[Bernica]

Wow! I would have never known. The only lights I have are an old Craftsman dial-back, a Mac Tools digital (dial back) and a simple Flaming River battery operated light with no dial back.

[Large Arbor]

I did get the MSD distributor and talked with them. They recommended drilling 2 holes 180 degrees apart. New distributor went in last night and initial timing is about 17 degrees and at 3,000 rpm it goes to 35 degrees and says there through 4,000 rpm. I am not sure of the ramp up. Engine builder says it's fine. Things just seem to idle a little faster than I like at about 1100 or 1200. I plan to try to reduce idle speed. Builder said I could use the black bushing in the distrbutor and it may be better. He echoed the same issues with MSD. I seems to have a little more lifter / rocker noise (at least it seems that way) than before but everything is torqued down ok. With the shafts and no adjustments, not sure there is much to do in that regard. I plan to go to the VR-1 racing oil to see if that helps.

Thanks again for all the advice. Now on to the Tremec rear transmission seal and finding the tools to remove and put that in.

Phil

[1795]

Phil,

Great to hear that you have one thing out of the way. The VR1 racing oil may help a little with that noise. Good luck with the rest of the project. Tuning down the idle a little sounds in order, that does seem a little fast for a car not sitting on a race track.

[Bernica]

Might want to check for any vacuum leaks first before playing with the idle.

[Large Arbor]

I have the mechanical advance and no vacuum. I think just adjusting idle speed should help things.

Phil

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

I have the mechanical advance and no vacuum. I think just adjusting idle speed should help things.

Phil

Phil - I think he means a last check for any sign of vacuum leaks around the intake gasket and carb gasket since either one will elevate idle speed somewhat.

[RACERAL]

If the both rocker arms are in the UP positon and the piston is up. Isn't that TDC on compression.

[1795]

At the end of the exhaust stroke, just prior to the intake valve opening to allow the fuel mixture in both valves will be closed. Otherwise, if the exhaust valve remains open some of the fuel mixture will get sucked out the exhaust lave. In addition, if the exhaust valve were not closed at the end of the exhaust store, Mr. piston says hi to Mr. valve in a very unkind way.

[Large Arbor]

Ok, one more question in this thread. Since setting the timing to38 degrees at 4,000 rpm (it gets to 38 at 3,000 rpm and stays there) it does not seem like the engine de-accelerates very fast. The RPMs seem to stay there even with the throttle released. Accelerating up is no issue, but I would like to tone down the idle a bit and cannot seem to do that. It wants to idle at 1100 RPM. I am using the same size bushings on the distributor as before and the heavy silver springs. Attached below is the MSD chart that shows the settings.

Phil

[blykins]

Make sure you don't have a vacuum leak or the throttle isn't sticking/hanging up.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by blykins

Make sure you don't have a vacuum leak or the throttle isn't sticking/hanging up.

I agree with Brent and know he probably won't agree with the technique I described before, but with everything in running order and at idle, take a can of starter fluid and give short squirts around the carb and manifold. If you hear an RPM change, you have a vacuum leak.
My 2 cents...

[Large Arbor]

Thank Brent. I have checked both and cannot find any vacuum leaks or throttle sticking. I can push the throttle all they way back and the RPMs stay up. If I adjust the idle speed down it eventually stalls.

Phil

[Large Arbor]

I have the choke setting wide open. Would that make a difference?