Torquing intake manifold bolts question

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Dave - we are running out of ideas here - but here is one more - remove the two bolts securing the fuel log and move fuel log out of the way. Replace the bolts with studs and w/o fuel log, install and torque the nuts to 25 ft lbs. Install the fuel log over the remaining threaded stud and install additional nuts to secure it. Have a beer.

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

The above is a good idea.

You can get a stud with male or female hex on the end.

Because of it's small drive, I would install them with a "smear" of anti-seize, nipped only, then fit the manifold nuts, torque to 25 lbft, then fit the fuel log, torque to 10-15 lbft.

Gary

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

The above is a good idea.

You can get a stud with male or female hex on the end.

Because of it's small drive, I would install them with a "smear" of anti-seize, nipped only, then fit the manifold nuts, torque to 25 lbft, then fit the fuel log, torque to 10-15 lbft.

Gary

Good info...what do you mean "nipped"?

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Good info...what do you mean "nipped"?

As with any stud fitment, they only need to "nipped up", a little over finger tight is enough.

Should be easily removeable as stated by others here.

Gary

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

As with any stud fitment, they only need to "nipped up", a little over finger tight is enough.

Should be easily removeable as stated by others here.

Gary

Got it, thanks

[davids2toys]

Went out to play with it little today. I did notice all the 6 point bolts say "ARP" in the head. These two 12 points say "DB" in the head? I got the easier to access one out with the 12 point wrench/socket combo. If this this was a 1/16 longer it would not have come out because it was wedged up against the runner. The front one is much worse, I have no idea how that one is going to get past the runner unless it is a shorter bolt.
First I put a 1 foot long 7/8 wrench on the end to gain leverage. That did not work. Then I tried a 2 foot long pipe, that worked but cracked the socket ear where the pin goes thru. There was some oil on the bolt when I took it out. For ref, this is the 4th bolt back from the front, PASS side. It measures 2 3/16 from bottom of flange to the very end of the bolt threads. Also, all the other manifold bolts have a built in flange under the head. I did not try and take out the front bolt because of the socket issue. This bolt is the 2nd one from the front, do you think it would be the same length? It seems to sit a little lower in the manifold.
I will post a few pics.

Believe it or not, the local nutty bolt company has black 6 point with a built in flange. they also have stud, fully threaded only. They have black nuts too, but only with the built in washer. All of the bolts, studs, and nuts are grade 8.

Dave

[DanEC]

It took that much force to loosen the bolt? Kind of surprising. Where did that wrench come from?

Some (or all) of the manifold end bolts are much shorter bolts - not sure if short ones are in front, in the back, or in the front and back.

[Bernica]

First, I have to say that is the cheapest piece of S*** wrench I have seen. I have no tolerance for cheap tools, but that's just me!

The bolt appears to be a Darling Bolt Company product.

Darling Bolt Company - Since 1958 Darling Bolt Company has been America's fastener specialist

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

Dave -

From what I can find out the center intake bolts are 2-5/8 inch long. If anyone knows any differently please chime in.

So you would probably be looking for 3 inch studs or possibly a 3-1/4 inch stud. ARPs site is hard to navigate for an exact bolt or stud but on Dorman's site I found these that look pretty close.

Dorman Products - 675-006

I found these on the McMaster web site. You can pretty much find any combination of length, fully threaded or partially threaded stud on it.

McMaster-Carr

ARP would be the most likely to have a stud with allen head recess or a screw driver slot in the top. If you have a dremel it would be pretty easy to add a screw driver slot to the top. I would probably install them with some blue thread locker to secure it in the block.

Just based on my motor I can't see how positioning the fuel log slightly higher should create an issue. If the fuel log is hard piped to an OEM type canister filter the line fittings would need to be loosened to re-position it and then re-tightened.

[undy]

I got fed up with intake leaks and stripped bolt holes so I made my own studs...

Originally Posted by undy

With regards to your stripped intake bolt, that was one of my problems during assembly... I had to come up with a solution.

All the bolt kits out there seem to be designed around cast iron heads, where they don't need to go as deep into the heads because they're grabbing iron. I solved my problem by "inventing" a set of stainless steel intake studs. No one else had made a set. I bought some hardened stainless steel all-thread from a local fastener supplier. I went to work measuring, cutting, chamfering and hack-sawing a slot in one end for a screwdriver install. You can run them down, all the way to the hole's bottom. That utilizes ALL the threads, not just 50% or so of them. Since then I've NEVER had another stripped hole or leaking gasket. They torque down very solid now. In addition, they make it real easy to bolt down other items like throttle linkages, halon fire extinguishing lines etc.

I also ended up helicoiling the stripped 3 hole, utilizing their 1" long helicoils.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by undy

I got fed up with intake leaks and stripped bolt holes so I made my own studs...

That should do it. Did you use any thread sealer or thread locker on the studs?

[undy]

Originally Posted by DanEC

That should do it. Did you use any thread sealer or thread locker on the studs?

I did not. You really can't as the studs need to be removable. You can't pull the intake without removing the studs first, hence the screw drive slots on the stud ends. Since going to studs ( 6 or 7 years ago) I've not had to retighten them once, checked but not tightened. The added stud lengths allows for throttle linkage, fuel logs, halon nozzles etc attachment points too.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by undy

I did not. You really can't as the studs need to be removable. You can't pull the intake without removing the studs first, hence the screw drive slots on the stud ends. Since going to studs ( 6 or 7 years ago) I've not had to retighten them once, checked but not tightened. The added stud lengths allows for throttle linkage, fuel logs, halon nozzles etc attachment points too.

Undy - do you remember how long you cut your studs? Max available stud length would always be a good idea.

[undy]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Undy - do you remember how long you cut your studs? Max available stud length would always be a good idea.

I just used a long nail and stuck it down the intake hole till it bottomed out in the head then measured the nail length. I then added 1" to the measurement and cut the stud(s) to that length.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Dave -

From what I can find out the center intake bolts are 2-5/8 inch long. If anyone knows any differently please chime in.

So you would probably be looking for 3 inch studs or possibly a 3-1/4 inch stud. ARPs site is hard to navigate for an exact bolt or stud but on Dorman's site I found these that look pretty close.

Dorman Products - 675-006

I found these on the McMaster web site. You can pretty much find any combination of length, fully threaded or partially threaded stud on it.

McMaster-Carr

ARP would be the most likely to have a stud with allen head recess or a screw driver slot in the top. If you have a dremel it would be pretty easy to add a screw driver slot to the top. I would probably install them with some blue thread locker to secure it in the block.

Just based on my motor I can't see how positioning the fuel log slightly higher should create an issue. If the fuel log is hard piped to an OEM type canister filter the line fittings would need to be loosened to re-position it and then re-tightened.

Thanks for the sources Dan. I was going to start tomorrow by calling ARP. As I said, I am also thinking of pulling the (2)12 points and get (2) 6 points. would you know the grade of the steel and is 3/8-16 the correct thread or were you just giving me an example?. Of course they are going to have to be black so they match the other fasteners. Of course if if I do your stud idea, the nuts will have to be black. Sucks being Anal!!!
Yes, I agree, raising the fuel log should not be an issue. I just looked at it and I think just shorter fuel bowl lines will be it.. Of course the nuts holding down the log will be right next to the runner and the log will still be in the way to torque them to 15 lbs as suggested. These however I am not worried about and "Good n Tight" should be fine just to hold down the log!

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

As I said, I am also thinking of pulling the (2)12 points and get (2) 6 points. would you know the grade of the steel and is 3/8-16 the correct thread or were you just giving me an example?.

Dave - I don't have a spare one lying around but back on post #17 Blykins said they are 3/8 inch coarse thread so that would be 3/8 - 16.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Dave - I don't have a spare one lying around but back on post #17 Blykins said they are 3/8 inch coarse thread so that would be 3/8 - 16.

Thanks