|
1. Big blocks are heavy and lightening the front end to make the car more nimble was certainly the main factor in choosing an aluminum block.
2. There was a certain symmetry with having an aluminum block in an aluminum body with a billet aluminum suspension and wheels and an alloy differential. 3. Back in 2008, there wasn't a shortage of aluminum blocks and, from memory, Genesis was one of the only producers of new iron FE blocks and they were having casting/porosity issues with their blocks at that time. 4. The price difference was relatively negligible. New FE blocks were roughly $3,500-$4,000. The Pond alloy block was $4,000-$4,500. And the Shelby alloy block $5,000-$5,500. I can't remember the figures exactly, but that's ball park. 5. The rumor mill or "I had heard" that the mating of alloy heads to the cast iron block caused metallurgical issues, which in turn caused sealing problems and oil leaks. And most sports cars today have all alloy engines, so that was somewhat comforting at the time. 6. Bragging rights. Yes, we all have egos. Would my decision be different today? Maybe, even probably, depending on various circumstances like shortages, block casting problems, etc. Today, I'd be more likely to choose a cast iron block than 8 years ago. |
Quote:
These engines are $20,000-ish +/-, so having a few go bad, could bankrupt a person. |
Just to address those...
These days the Pond aluminum block is $5600 and up. Shelby is about $1000 higher. BBM iron block is around $3500 I think. Absolutely no issue whatsoever with running aluminum heads on cast iron blocks. Zero. There are actually more chances of leaks with the all-aluminum FE engines than the cast iron/aluminum pieces. Plus, I recommend that all my all-aluminum customers run Moroso Ceramic Seal through the tank on an initial install. Don't have to do that on a "hybrid" engine. :) A lot of your OEM combinations are all-aluminum. However, they have OEM quantity, OEM manufacturing, and OEM foundries behind them. Big difference. Personally, knowing all that I know, I wouldn't consider an aluminum block a bragging right, but I could see where it could be taken that way. Same way as bragging about having a "6-speed". :) By the way, RK, this post wasn't an argument to your points, but just trying to clarify some things out there that could be really considered rumors, as you call them. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
That makes my future plans a bit less demanding. I can get significant lightening up front with alloy heads, water pump, etc. My car is not a racer at all, more accurately a daily driver. With the 1989 block in my replica being one of the more desirable of the 5.0s (roller lifters, hypereutectic pistons) I can see much more clearly the build parameters now. Cheers! Doug |
Quote:
While you, as an engine builder, don't think running an aluminum block is a bragging right, the consumer still does. And when you go to sell your Cobra, the buyer's perception is that the alloy block is better. Why? It costs more and it removes about 100 lbs from the front end. Until buyer's perceptions change, it will continue to be an issue when you go to sell your Cobra. Are the OEM foundries different from the foundries that cast the alloy FE blocks? There can't be that many foundries left in our country that can make these things anymore. The FE block has been around for 50 years, not much has changed, so it's not like these foundries are inventing a new iPhone or the newest flu vaccine. :LOL: |
Quote:
Brent, BTW, not too long ago, BBM had no blocks available. I remember a CC member inquiring here in a thread. Are they available for immediate purchase now? |
I texted Doug from BBM last week and asked when the blocks would be arriving....he said next week. So.....he should have blocks as we speak from what I gather.
I don't know if I have an exact answer to the OEM foundry question. My guess is that some of the big names such as Ford, GM, etc., have their own foundry. I know Pond was casting his stuff at a foundry in Ohio and last year left them because of quality issues. It seems as though every time a new foundry is sought after, it takes months and months and months. I've seen this time and time again from suppliers such as Pond, to the guys who are trying to get a new product up and going. I know BBM's blocks are cast by the Hyundai foundry in South Korea. However, I lean heavily on the thought that an outsider such as BBM, who's asking for 200 pieces takes a huge back seat to someone who's asking for 250000 pieces. That's where we get back to the SBF, SBC, BBC, etc., aftermarket blocks. Those are sold by fairly high quantities. FE blocks just don't have that big of a demand. |
I spent 22+ years working for IBM and one of its wholly-owned subsidiaries, and I can tell you IBM (and the subsidiary I worked for) did a risk assessment on every substantial piece of work it bid on. Each of those risk assessments produced a risk rating, with appropriate risk 'premiums' and contingencies applied to those bids or proposals. Having said that, there were situations where the risk assessment produced an extreme or unacceptable risk rating. Under those situations IBM would choose not to bid.
While Brent is dealing with a completely different set of circumstances, products, etc., he's performing his own risk assessment on the business he chooses to accept. If his experience (one of the factors in IBM's risk assessment) tells him the use of aluminum blocks (analogous to IBM's use of 3rd party products) produces an unacceptable risk rating, then he can well choose to decline the work. I completely understand - especially after reading his responses and rationale in this thread. |
Quote:
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/fe-t...er-pro-nc.html They were out of blocks in June and they're out of blocks in November, did they ship anyone blocks in the between June and November? I'm not sure how reliable they'll be getting customers their blocks, at least quickly. That would frustrate me A LOT, if I were waiting. I haven't heard anyone moaning about the alloy Shelby or Pond blocks here, are they having problems that we're not aware of? |
Quote:
|
Quote:
The "OEM" guys are using pressure cast aluminum in permanent molds with foam void cores, a big difference from gravity cast, sand pattern castings. The ability to control core shift, etc. is much greater with high dollar production means. |
Quote:
I just searched the FE Forum just a minute ago and Brent posted that EVERYONE is out of blocks, BBM, Pond, Shelby, etc. Does anyone have an FE block available? I know mine just went up in value. :LOL: |
I'm with you Brent also. My thoughts are, aluminum moves a lot. A block being such a big chunk of bored holes to the thousands of an inch just never made sense to me from a longevity reliability standpoint at big horsepower numbers. Maybe a seasoned block has better results. I'll let you weigh in on that thought.
|
Not knowing anything about the agreement they have in place, BBM may be in a perilous position have their parts cast by Hyundai. Years ago I was with a company that needed castings. We found an excellent foundry that was owned by Kumatsu and had spare capacity. The parts they supplied us were great, and pricing was good. After about 5 years, they told us that Kumatsu's demand had increased and they no longer had the capacity to supply parts to us. We scrambled to find another supplier, but never found one with the quality we had been getting.
|
Brent, it's your business.
Do what you want! |
Quote:
|
Quote:
But for some, the more money we have, the more discriminating we can be. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:40 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: