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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
Hey, I gave you the butt-man emoji, but for some reason you thought it was "too realistic."
Yes, I know you gave it to me. I liked it so much I saved it on my computer. I just didn't want to offend anyone here with cartoon butt.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 03:20 PM
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Yes, I know you gave it to me. I liked it so much I saved it on my computer. I just didn't want to offend anyone here with cartoon butt.
I have a cartoon butt - should I be offended?
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
I have a cartoon butt - should I be offended?

I thought you were going to say it was broken. You know, because it has a crack in it....
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 03:52 PM
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Well I think I understand how it looks from each persons perspective, and their point of view. You never know for sure until you have walked in someone else's shoes. I'm glad both apologized and hope we all can all bury the hatchet here - so to speak - and move on. No point in anyone piling on or pouring any racing fuel, on the smoldering embers as this one fizzles out.

Most of us appreciate all the help and free advise Bent and the other builders who chime in from time to time. But I will say it anyway, thank you.

Funfer2 I get it. Once in a while I would like to just shoot the breeze on ideas and bounce them back and forth. It seems not too many folks on the Net is looking for that or at least they are hard to find.

One of the problems of people tossing out opinions is that a whole lot of untruths, superstitions, and what not gets out there and stays out there forever. Then those who are in the know are trying to kill these falsehoods. We live in a time where everything known to man is at your finger tips, with a google search, almost instantly. People don't want to take the time to talk or hear a good story, they just want the facts and move on.

So I will humor you a bit. I understand what it is like to want something and not have the funds yet. You still want to be active, so you want to examine your options every-which-way from Sunday. It is better than crying in your beer, and it prepares you for when you do get the funds.

Engine choice can drive you nuts. The Modular was and now the Coyote is the choice for someone who wants new modern technology and has no longing or nostalgia for the good old days. Blasphemy the purist scream. Realize people born after 1980 (37 yrs old) have no memory of the cars of the 1960's or what it was like.

The first Cobra's were small block and the purest do not want them in a 427 Cobra body, but there are tons of them out there. Even though I have a 5.0 / 347 stroker, I cannot recommend this engine. The factory blocks are not that strong and you have to get fairly radical to make the power.

The Cleveland was a great engine in its day but Ford and most of the world left it behind, as unfortunate as it is. I think Shelby would have loved to put that engine in a Cobra. Had it existed perhaps the 427 FE would never have been used, but the timing was all wrong. We will never know.

That leaves the 351 Windsor, small block. What started out as the ugly duckling, became a swan, when stroker kits became the rage. Now make that a 427 cid Clevor (or CHI down under heads) and damn. This is becoming an engine porn story. At this point you are talking serious power, great looks, and reasonable costs.

And now for the 427 side oiler that started the whole awesome Cobra story. Like it or not it is the holey grail of Cobra engines. The problem is the price. Few original unmolested blocks are out there, and the aftermarket blocks just make the price tag even higher. You might get lucky and find something in a barn, but you might get burned with a boat anchor, too. These things just cost too much for many of us.

So we step down to any old FE. With stroker kits, a 390 FE can go to ~440 cid. Plenty to build serious power. So for a lot of extra money and extra complex engine design to possibly cause headaches, you can have an FE that belongs in a 427 Cobra. Nothing wrong with that if you can afford it.

Now you can argue how many 428 FE were put in the original 427 Cobra and how most people couldn't tell the different between a 427 SO and any other FE, if it makes you feel better. Truth is the only thing that could possibly turn on a Cobra nut more than a 427 SO would be a Cammer, and the original purest will frown on that too. Not to mention a Cammer is Premo-Money.

So that leave us with the 385 series engine. One it doesn't belong in a 427 Cobra body any more than a Windsor or Coyote. Two you have to have a magic shoe horn and mirrors (a little smoke would help) to fit it in a Cobra. But it will fit. There are plenty out there. Now if you get past one and two, here is an engine that can make huge power on a beer budget. When you have over 500 cid, you cannot help but have monster torque. A decent set of heads and a reasonable cam and you have huge HP. You just do not need to spend a bunch of many to make 600 HP.

This all said, you never know when you will come across a good buy on any engine, but if you have to build one from scratch, I believe HP/$ the 385 series engine family wins.
OldDog, you're a wise,....OldDog !

I agree with most of what you wrote, so I don't need to write myself.
The small block 427ci are a great engine, put down the powerand sound awesome, but with my 427 Cobra, it would be too much work to take off the 427 logo on the fenders and replace with a 427w.

I need a 427, 428 or 385 series. Lately, the monstor torque down low, higher HP and price of a 385 series is on my mind and the sound and feel of that power gives my a shawing !
(at my age, that's a blessing)
What keeps me back a little is it going to be too tall and/or too wide and maybe, needing to saw out my hood scoop and buy/make a new one and asuming repainting the blue hood and custom white pearl stripes. I made extra back in 2001, but not the white pearl. So, what's goinf to win, my sprint car power, feel and sound over a lot of work ? Hum......

Oh hell, open up the hood and put a frickin blower on it ! 6-71 hum....

Rodknock, you're a good guy to. (most the time anyway) lol

And to all you gearheads, if it's true that people have gotten away from chatting here and going for just answers to questions, lets bring back the old days !
Bench racing is what I'm used to and it's not only a learning session, IT'S FUN !
I will never just buy anything, because it's popular or cheap. Like buying a stock 460, 428 or even a awesome but stock side oiler. Not gonna happen captain !

If any of these put out 1,000 HP stock, I'd still modify it !
That''s where it's fun boyzzz.

Example. Our local track went from racing our 360/410 sprint cars to a cheaper IMCA 305 engine, and although the engines went from $30-000/$40,000 down to $9,000, it ain't the same ! So, we can't afford to travel, so we just go to special high paying events. But, to new drivers, the 550-600 HP is extremely fast and enough power, but to us, it's like going from top fuel down to methanol.

To Brent, I'm sorry buddy, I did not mean to come down so hard on you. You're a good guy and sounds like you build one hell of an engine, no matter what it is.
But please understand, I need to bench race, chatter when I feel well enough, and ***** when needed. lol, kidding. Just because we and others have different opinions doesen't mean we have to aurgue and blow punchs.

What's so,ooo sad, is I hate Trump, but my uncle loves him. I asked for his help on a project and he said ok. But a few months ago I started a rant about Trump on Facebook, and he wrote then called to say I needed to stop or he won't help me !

Are you kidding,..... Trump and politics over family !

Ah well, back to Cobra talk !

If fact, what has happened to the other Cobra related forums ?

What about CC, it used to be like 3 pages long of new threads,and now it's down to one.
Where is everybody ?
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
I have a cartoon butt - should I be offended?
Well, for the record, I'm not a cartoon butt bigot, but I can't assume others here might not get insulted if I posted a cartoon butt.

Harvard just rescinded the acceptances of 10 students who posted offending gifs, memes and/or pics, so I don't want to be thrown off Club Cobra for posting offending material. You know, Club Cobra is the Harvard of the car forums.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
I left because of Brent, but now I'm back.

Seriously, if "you" (not Brent specifically) don't like the thread, then don't click on it and post on it. Holy cow. Is it that hard to look away or ignore it.

And what the heck is wrong with doing research on various engine families and asking a lot of questions? Sure, some of us know that an all-aluminum FE is the best and only choice for a 427 Cobra, notwithstanding some engine builders not being able to handle machining them not to leak, but there are others who just don't know which is best (all-aluminum FE's), so they ask questions.

When did we become so intolerant? You would think there's a political rally around here.

<Insert GIF of cartoon man dropping his pants and showing his bare butt>
I will say this.....if the aftermarket FE block manufacturers don't get their QC under control, I'm gonna skip building FE's altogether, aluminum or cast iron.

Barry just had a brand new block lose oil pressure while priming the oil pump on the dyno and found out that a main oil passage had been drilled through.....so it was just bleeding out internally.

I've had brand new blocks that needed sleeves.

I've had brand new blocks that needed lifter bore sleeves because of porosity.

There are some cast iron blocks floating around where the lifter bores are not finish-drilled all the way through, so there's a step at the bottom.

It's really beginning to not be worth it. When you have a back log of orders and you have to pull one off the dyno to fix something or you don't find something that should have been done until the block is finished and painted, it just pushes everything back.

Not to mention that I can make the same horsepower with a SBF with 50 less cubic inches....
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:35 PM
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Not to mention that I can make the same horsepower with a SBF with 50 less cubic inches....
For me, if all the engine builders are having trouble with the new FE blocks, iron or alloy, then before I stick a SBF in my Cobra, I'd probably look at the Aussie formula for the LS-series of Chevy engines.

For me, if the decision has been made NOT to go with an FE in a 427 Cobra, then I'd go with the easiest, fastest and most reliable modern FI solution that's readily available. If that's a Chevy or Mopar, then so be it.

But I don't want to hear any complaints, moaning and whining about the parts this or the parts that from either the engine or car builder. I want near-Toyota Camry reliability.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
Buy this for seven grand and be done with it.

FORD FE BIG BLOCK 390 - 450 HORSE CRATE ENGINE / PRO-BUILT / NEW 351 408 427 428 | eBay

If you can't come up with seven grand, then it's time to shut it down.
Yep, I've seen him but I won't buy from ebay. Here's another one of his, more power.

FORD FE BIG BLOCK 428 - 560 HORSE CRATE ENGINE /PRO-BUILT/NEW 390 427 ALUM HEAD
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 05:32 PM
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11 threads later, we still haven't provided any more information for you to make a decision. I would take some time to sit down by yourself and figure it out. You have 3 key points that you need to figure out: cost, horsepower, and originality.
Yup, those 3 points pretty much sum it all up....


Well, maybe there is ONE more point to ponder: Personal tolerance level regarding oil leaks.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2017, 06:48 PM
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I will say this.....if the aftermarket FE block manufacturers don't get their QC under control, I'm gonna skip building FE's altogether, aluminum or cast iron.

Barry just had a brand new block lose oil pressure while priming the oil pump on the dyno and found out that a main oil passage had been drilled through.....so it was just bleeding out internally.

I've had brand new blocks that needed sleeves.

I've had brand new blocks that needed lifter bore sleeves because of porosity.

There are some cast iron blocks floating around where the lifter bores are not finish-drilled all the way through, so there's a step at the bottom.

It's really beginning to not be worth it. When you have a back log of orders and you have to pull one off the dyno to fix something or you don't find something that should have been done until the block is finished and painted, it just pushes everything back.

Not to mention that I can make the same horsepower with a SBF with 50 less cubic inches....
Brent, does that include the higher dollar Shelby FE, and the BBM ?
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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2017, 04:10 AM
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Brent, does that include the higher dollar Shelby FE, and the BBM ?
Ummm... I'm so confused.
I thought you told the bloke to rack off.

...not to be rude, but does it really matter?
You're unlikely to be purchasing one of these, last I recall they were out of stock.

In any case, I think I was pushing for you to get an Fe early, but that's because that's what I like. The more I think about it, perhaps you're better off with 385 series.

By the sound of it, you and your build already seem very much committed to that path. So it's likely your build would proceed quicker and smoother with a 385 series. You might even still be alive to enjoy it.

Further if the worse imaginable were to happen, repair costs would be more manageable for you.

It's a win win for you. Cheap power, easier build option, and if it's important to you, it's still a Ford and a "big block".

Now hence forth a search accordingly.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:13 AM
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Forgiveness
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Old 06-24-2017, 03:21 PM
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I will say this.....if the aftermarket FE block manufacturers don't get their QC under control, I'm gonna skip building FE's altogether, aluminum or cast iron.

Barry just had a brand new block lose oil pressure while priming the oil pump on the dyno and found out that a main oil passage had been drilled through.....so it was just bleeding out internally.
Dang I just talked to Lance a few hours ago, at the London Car Show. I never thought to ask him about new aftermarket FE blocks. I did ask if finding good original blocks is hard to do. My local supply of dozens of 390 and some 428 FE blocks went, when the scrap metal prices sky rocketed a few years back. The guy cashed in the entire yard and retired. Lance said that original FE blocks are getting harder to find and are costing more.

I'm not sure I trust these 50 yr old blocks, and the new are too costly. Now quality is questionable on top of that. How much longer can the FE dominate the Cobra Pack?

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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2017, 03:42 PM
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As for the 385 series fitting in a Cobra, I recall reading quite a few threads on having to use a certain intake and / or milling a 1/4" or so off the carb flange, to get the hood to close with a drop base air cleaner. I know they are tight to fit in some manufactures, and I suspect it just may not fit at all in some others.

I rode in a new then (2005ish) Superformance with a 532 bought from Ford Racing. It fit.

I just looked at a Kirkham at the London show, with a V12 in it. The Valve cover said 800+ on it. I assume that was cubic inches. I talked to the ower's wife (let's say ultimately the true owner) for a bit. Every time she told me the manufacture's name someone would drop the hammer on a burnout. I gather the engine was some type of boat engine, and only a couple dozen or so were built. She said Kirkham special built the car around the engine. Now that was neat to see. I wish I had heard it run.
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:09 AM
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I just looked at a Kirkham at the London show, with a V12 in it. The Valve cover said 800+ on it. I assume that was cubic inches. I talked to the ower's wife (let's say ultimately the true owner) for a bit. Every time she told me the manufacture's name someone would drop the hammer on a burnout. I gather the engine was some type of boat engine, and only a couple dozen or so were built. She said Kirkham special built the car around the engine. Now that was neat to see. I wish I had heard it run.

I've heard it run.... It sounds like a WWII fighter plane.

The owner (Jeff) is a local Az guy - (screen name here is azcobra12)

The engine is an 860cid custom offshore racing V12 built by Torque Engineering (they are out of business now)- The owner told us they re-cammed and de-tuned the boat engine to make about 1000hp for the street.

This shot was snapped by Bob Broberg a few months back (Bob is the OG-est of the OG Arizona Cobra dudes):



And a couple more (taken by IntCobra) back when the car was being built at Kirkham:





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Old 06-25-2017, 12:10 PM
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What can I say, but wow.
Any video's ?
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 03:01 PM
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Now those are some pipes! Yikes.
dcdoug likes this.
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Old 06-25-2017, 04:41 PM
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If it's word doing,it's worth doing in excess.....!
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:37 AM
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While a monster power V 12 would be ultimate thick dic swingign rights, I think the sound would underwhelm. V12's typically fire LRLRLRLRLRLR. American V8's almost always LRLLRLRR giving them that special lope. The V12 would sound like an extra loud UPS truck.
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:34 AM
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The V12s I've seen (Ferrari, Aston) also have a very high red line, so while they don't have that lopey V8 rumble, they have a Formula 1 sound when operating at WOT. It all depends on what you're looking for.
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