Side Oiler, Little Disapointing Dyno Numbers ?

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by CHANMADD

Yea ..but in all honesty.... 480 Hp at the wheels is over 500 and that is plenty in a Cobra.

I bet that's at the crank, not the wheels. Original side oilers back in the 60s ran similar numbers in stock configuration and this build and street cam seems to be similar to that.

[FUNFER2]

How is the old,...intake configuration vs todays aluminum intakes, for power ?
Pond, Edelbrock, Dove etc.

I'm sure Jay Brown has the stats on intakes, but my brain is to burnt to look them up.
(it is Jay Brown, right ?)

How much can be gained over the old but VERY cool,....sidewinder intake ?

The reason I like this motor is all of the rotating assembly has been changed to newer and stronger parts.

I know the original cranks and rods would be ok, but I'd prefer todays parts.

It's all balanced too. The big money would be new heads and valve train, even if the H S rockers would still be used.

Heads another $2,500-5,000

So even if he came down to $10,000, with a guess total of $13,00-$14,000 ain't bad for a original 427 side oiler block.

But is that statment really,.....a true 427 side oiler engine ?

It's like if you had a numbers matching original muscle car, but all parts except for the firewall with the vintag and the roof, were too far gone to use, so the fenders, floor, doors were replaced with new, is that car really original ?

I don't think so.

So, would this be a 427 side oiler ?
Not original, but the block and pump is what makes the "side oiler,".......right ?

[FUNFER2]

I couldn't load the photo's, so here's the link with pics. I'm not buying, just looking and learning

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/6106120962.html

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I couldn't load the photo's, so here's the link with pics. I'm not buying, just looking and learning

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/6106120962.html

Since it's a ribbed block, doesn't that make is a service block or were their some production blocks that were ribbed too?

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by DanEC

He's pulling your leg if he's saying this engine originally came out of a 69 Mach 1 - the 427 engine was never put in the Mustang although the hydraulic lifter version made it into the Cougar. But assuming he's just a little history compromised the engine may be a good deal if it checks out.

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Since it's a ribbed block, doesn't that make is a service block or were their some production blocks that were ribbed too?

From my research, the ribbed block means that there is no way this block was ever used in an OEM 427 side-oiler installation. From what I read, the last OEM 427 side-oiler blocks were cast in 1964 (without ribs), and were installed in 1967 model year cars; while the ribbed FE service blocks did not come out until the early 70's...

Now, even with the service block, this engine might still be machined and built to a cross bolted main configuration (I've read that some service blocks did have the provisions for the cross bolts), but this engine block never lived in an original 1960's 427 equipped vehicle. No way.

I know all this because I talked to the seller of this engine on the phone many months ago, and then did some homework

This ad (or other ads for the same engine) have been up in the Arizona Craigslist for several months. The seller wants to sell it as-is, for big cash, without putting it on a run stand so the buyer can hear it run. The seller was also suspiciously not forthcoming about why the engine was removed from the car after only 1000 miles...

It's a mystery-motor, that he's asking pro engine builder money for....

The only way you would know if this engine was any good would be to manually compression test it (cranking it by hand), and then remove all the bearing caps and plasti-gage all the bearings for tolerance, then spin the oil pump with a powerful drill to make sure it makes oil pressure, and then pray that you don't have a spun cam bearing, cracked water jacket, or collapsed lifter inside there.

(or, you could ask the seller if he would be willing to let you install it in a car before you paid him for it, but that proposal didn't work when I tried it , haha)

I suggested to the guy he should probably put it on a run stand if he expects to sell it for that kind of cash, but it seems my advice was not heeded...

[blykins]

There were indeed service replacement 427 side oiler blocks. I've seen more than my share. They have the ribs. They have the cross bolts. They have the side oil galley "bulge" and they have the front galley plug on the driver's side of the timing cover.

No, they weren't in 60's OEM vehicles, but they were legit, and were just offered over the counter as replacements. (You could also get Boss 302 service replacement blocks, after the 69/70 Boss 302 Mustangs were made....)

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by blykins

There were indeed service replacement 427 side oiler blocks. I've seen more than my share. They have the ribs. They have the cross bolts. They have the side oil galley "bulge" and they have the front galley plug on the driver's side of the timing cover.

No, they weren't in 60's OEM vehicles, but they were legit, and were just offered over the counter as replacements. (You could also get Boss 302 service replacement blocks, after the 69/70 Boss 302 Mustangs were made....)

Exactly what I have - a '72 service block side oiler.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by blykins

There were indeed service replacement 427 side oiler blocks. I've seen more than my share. They have the ribs. They have the cross bolts. They have the side oil galley "bulge" and they have the front galley plug on the driver's side of the timing cover.

I never said they didn't make side oiler service blocks. All I said was that the engine in this ad is using a service block- I think we all agree on that.

Therefore, it did not "originally come out of" any Ford car like the seller claims. It came out of the casting foundry as a replacement part.

The 2J29 # cast into the block denotes a 1972/Sept 29th date code.

Maybe Ford took this 1972 service engine, and teleported it 3 years backward in time, and installed it in the only 1969 Mach One Mustang that ever left the factory with a 427 SO engine in it...???

you can see the cross bolts in his pictures, but you can't really see the oil galley bulge on the driver's side, it's blocked by the plug wires. maybe the bulge is there, and maybe this really is a side-oiler... If it is a SO, is it worth 12 grand with those less than awesome CJ heads on it? (I'm asking honestly - I have no idea)

However, I'd send you or Craft 12 grand toward a 14k custom built and warranteed FE, before I'd buy this (non running) mystery engine out of some guy's garage... Like I said, I spoke to this dude on the phone several months back, and I just got a weird vibe from him.

[Shootnride]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

From what I read, the last OEM 427 side-oiler blocks were cast in 1964 (without ribs), and were installed in 1967 model year cars; while the ribbed FE service blocks did not come out until the early 70's...

Mine has no ribs and a 1968 casting date.

Ted

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

How much can be gained over the old but VERY cool,....sidewinder intake ?

In jays very well documented results, it turns out that the sidewider isn't all that great. Especially for a high HP engine. Even older Ebock and Holley single planes out perform it without losing low end grunt and are stupid cheap comparatively. Something like this with a nice gloss silver powder coat looks really nice.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I bet that's at the crank, not the wheels. Original side oilers back in the 60s ran similar numbers in stock configuration and this build and street cam seems to be similar to that.

Yes that would be correct, flywheel horsepower.

I don't think anybody could advertise an engine at rear wheel horsepower when there's no driveline behind it.

[FUNFER2]

Brent, what would you do with this motor, from leave it, little changes, mild part changes to pretty radical changes, and why ?

With each of the four, what would be the apx increases in HP &TQ ?

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Brent, what would you do with this motor, from leave it, little changes, mild part changes to pretty radical changes, and why ?

With each of the four, what would be the apx increases in HP &TQ ?

I'm not Brent but I'll give you my 2 bitcoins, knowing what I know about your preferences.

1. Pond or BBM heads. Whatever I could get my hands on.
2. Dual plane Blue thunder intake.
3. Lightest possible flywheel I could find.

Cammed with The goal being to be able to produce as much tq as I could for as long as I could on the curve starting from around 2300rpm.

It would probably not give me the highest HP Possible but it would give me the hardest and most instant kick in the pants when I pushed the go pedal.

Great for some rear wheel steering at will

[patrickt]

Buy this for seven grand and be done with it.

FORD FE BIG BLOCK 390 - 450 HORSE CRATE ENGINE / PRO-BUILT / NEW 351 408 427 428 | eBay

If you can't come up with seven grand, then it's time to shut it down.

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Buy this for seven grand and be done with it.

FORD FE BIG BLOCK 390 - 450 HORSE CRATE ENGINE / PRO-BUILT / NEW 351 408 427 428 | eBay

If you can't come up with seven grand, then it's time to shut it down.

Yep, I've seen him but I won't buy from ebay. Here's another one of his, more power.

FORD FE BIG BLOCK 428 - 560 HORSE CRATE ENGINE /PRO-BUILT/NEW 390 427 ALUM HEAD