What block do I have

[Ross Murray]

I have found a 427 SO block, but need some help identifing it. It is a SO block (it has the hump) but it was never drilled. There are pilot marks were it would have been drilled. It is also cross bolted and has an oil supply for hydralic lifters. The SO hump has been partially machined away on the lower portion, about 1 inch. The only numbers I could find were stamped and were 8OL, I assume it starts with a C but was missed.

Any thoughts on what I have found would be appreciated.

He is selling this as a complete motor with the following:
Block is .017
Crank is iron .010/.010
Rods are CJ Cap screw style
Pistons are KB Hypereutectics
Heads CJ's w/ 427 ex valve new springs
Offy 2X4 or Ford Single 4 Intake with carb/s
Rebuilt Wide Ratio Toploader

asking $6200

Is this a reasonable price for the above?

Thanks, Ross

[Ron61]

Ross,

I can't find anything in the pages of Ford block numbers that I have which corrresponds to the numbers you give. They did make a 1968 427 side oiler with hydraulic lifters but it is a C8AE- number. I don't quite understand the machining away of part of the side oiler hump so some of the really knowledgable guys will have to help with that. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Ron

[A Snake]

It sounds like you may have found a compilation of parts. If memory serves, the 68 SO had all of the bottom end parts from earlier solid lifter versions. That would include forged steel crank and LeMans rods. It differed on top with CJ heads and intake.

If it had the afore mentioned bottom end pieces, it would be worth the price and then some. Without them, you're basically getting only the block for a real 427 SO, unless the single 4 manifold is a sidewinder.

Could you use it as is? Yes. You just won't get anywhere near the performance or reliability of a true 427SO.

You might see if the guy will sell just the block and go hunt up the rest of the SO parts on your own.

Al

[KobraKarl]

Ross, sounds like a late service block center oiler should be 68
but my book shows nothing??????? usually a sighn it wasnt put in a car!

Karl

[FFR428]

Could it be a marine block? I can only reference these till "66" Block sounds like a centeroiler cast as sideoiler as some marine blocks were. If it is a marine block be careful water passages corrode badly on these! G.

[Ross Murray]

My quess is that it is a marine or service block. It has definately been used but the seller does not now where. The water passages do look very clean with no sign of corrosion.

Do you think it is worth $6,200 for the collection of parts listed above? I know I will not have a true 427 SO but it is still a 427 and the CJ heads should perform fine.

A Snake - Why do you say that I would not get anywhere near the performance of a true SO?

FFR428 - I am in Trumbull and also building an FFR kit. Not to many go the FE Route with an FFR. I had originally planned to do a 390 with edelbrock heads but this 427 turned up and it is very tempting. Have you had any issues with the FE in the chassis?

Ross

[KobraKarl]

Ross,

the value of that package really lies hidden in the build,Ithink the comment about its potential performance limitations were directed at the heads, crank and rods. those are not bad heads ,but wont breath as well as med rise heads .I dont know the value of the gearbox. is there a flywheel, scattersheild ,pressure plate, carbs??

does it give you what you want? it would make more power than a 390!

Karl

[SFfiredog]

Sounds like you have a Merc Marine 300 block. Relatively common.
You might want to double check on the hydraulic lifter oiling though. All the marine blocks I've seen are mechanical lifter only.
See if the block has had the two cross-over passages in the lifter valley (3/4 back on the main oil spine in the lifter valley) drilled out and tapped for plugs. Or, for that matter, are there any holes in the lifter bores? $6200 is really pushing it on such a mix-match pile of parts still needing to be inspected and assemebled. To each his own and Caveat Emptor.
HTH,
Mike

[FE Specialties]

Hi Ross,

What you have is a marine block and crank. The rods sound like 428 SCJs.
The Offy intake is low-end, don't use it!! If the single 4 is a sidewinder (carb offset to the drivers side, its a good choice for the street, semi-strip, type car.
If you don't intend to race the car above 6500 rpm for a extended period of time, the parts listed are fine as long as a thorough blueprint is performed!!!!
Cam choice is critical for the best performance!! Also, a good head porting on the CJ heads along with an accurate intake port match, will really do wonders for the motor. I can get the CJs to flow around 320 cfm, while still keeping some good port velocity.

Hope this helps with your decision!!!
P.S. The price on this package is a tad high to me.
Block; 1200- 1500
Crank; 300 tops
Rods; 300
Pistons; 300
Heads; 500-600
Intake(Sidewinder) 450
Trans; 500-600
Total; 4050

[zimmy]

In line with the question of what block is this? - I have a block that I was told is a late 64 427 top oiler. The only casting number that I can find on the block is C4AF. I don't see that number in Crist's book. Does anyone have a better source and can tell me what it is. I am beginning to fear that I was taken and that it is a 390 block. Any help would be appreciated.

[RACER X #99]

Zimmy,
My book lists a C4AEF as a 390 HP block.

Hope this helps but perhaps my book is wrong.

Cranky

[KobraKarl]

Zimmy,

Thats an easy one.................. do you have crossbolts??? bottom of skirt just above the pan.

hopin you find em....... Karl

[zimmy]

Cranky:

Thanks for the response. I don't think that there was an "E" between the A and the F but I could be wrong. I'll look again. I am beginning to think that it is a 390.

Karl:

I'm also pretty sure that I don't have the cross bolts, but again - I'll look again to be sure. What would it be with or without?

[KobraKarl]

Zimmy,

With crossbolts 406,427 to, 427so

Without crossbolts 352,390,428

c4aef 64 police

c4ae 64 to

KARL

[FFR428]

Ross, Sorry to take so long to reply. I am still building eng at this point. From what I hear and have seen there are not too many issues with the FE in a FFR. Time will tell for sure!
Zimmy, The 390HP block is a very good start. Not quite a 427 but none the less it will make a sweet motor! Hope you did not spend too much on this eng. If there are no crossbolts.....no 427.Sucks getting beat! Been there a few times myself. Let us know how you make out!

[zimmy]

Thanks all:

I went back under to look tonight and it does have the cross bolts and I think the number may actually be C4AE. This would all be good news as this would make it a '64 Top Oiler 427 which is what it is supposed to be. That takes me back to the original supposition.

Had the engine built 12 years ago by people that are no longer available. No build sheet to know what is what. Solid runner with a Holley 750. Couple of years ago I put Weber 48 IDAs on the engine and have not been able to get it right even with all of the high powered help I received on this forum, etc.

This past fall, I finally put it on a chassis dyno to be shocked to learn that it only had 250 HP!!!! Ran very rich even with small jets, constantly bachfires on decel. Only consensus has been that the engine must have been built with very low compression ratio for street gas. Explains all of the symptoms. It even ran rich jetted down with the Holley. Makes sense. I also seem to remember that the "crook" that built my car back then said something about the engine having a 390 truck crank for strength. What I really think it has is a 390 crank with 390 everythings which ends up with a low compression 390 in a 427 body (or something like that since a stock 390 is about 250 hp).

Anybody have any thoughts. I am planning a new all aluminum 427 at about 500 hp later this spring from C&C Performance in VA. Should solve the problem. It will run 10.5:1 compression which the Webers will like.

[KobraKarl]

Zimmy,

cranks for an early top oiler are almost identical to390 crank(both are cast), same goes for rods.

390 pistons would never fit in a 427 block , the bore for a 390 is.18 smaller.

check your block for casting # pasenger side on # 1 cylinder

check your head casting # as well

I have recieved an education on low rise / mid rise manifolds on this forum recently and have discovered just how badly these bolt on parts can be mis-matched, your ida's may not like your low rise heads at all, also manifold and /or carb. air leaks call for a rich tune, that will never run right .

let us know what you find ,you might be better off than you think.

Karl