Engine died after 20 minutes

[Venom S]

My new 640 HP engine lasted 20 minutes. The cam failed - all 16 lifters destroyed. Why? Wrong springs resulting in coil bind



Venom_S

[Back in Black]

Who was the builder, and did you get a warranty?

[Venom S]

I built the engine, so I guess it's warrantied.

[Excaliber]

Ouch! Sometimes I just hate lifes learning curve.......

Hopefully the damage is not to severe.

Ernie

[Mr.Fixit]

Hope your lifter bores aren't wasted, getting them redone isn't cheap. Do all your pushrods look like banannas? Usually the pushrods will absorb the force and bend out of the way, I haven't seen 16 broken lifters before.

[Venom S]

The pushrods look brand new.

I called Edelbrock this morning and they said my cam should have worked with their springs. Now I'm wondering if the failure was due to something else.

When we tried to run teh required 20 minute break in at 2000-3000 RPM, we had to keep shutting it off because of various leaks. We didn't get to do the break in run until the following day.

Could that have been the cause?

[Mr.Fixit]

During the first fire up, you have to keep the revs up so oil gets splashed on the cam, and the lifters will rotate in their bores. If the lifters don't rotate, they will rub a lobe off the cam. I have done first fire-ups where it runs for 30 seconds, a minute before seeing a fuel / oil/ water leak that needs immediate addressing, so shut it down then resume after. Just making sure the first 20 minutes of run time is at 2000-2500, even if that time is split into two sessions or more, just don't let it sit there and idle.

I have never seen a motor break 16 lifters. You have something going on there, and if all your pushrods are new looking, that makes me think it wasn't coil bind, pushrods would have bent. Who's cam and lifters are they? Is it mechanical or hydraulic? How did the cam look?

[Venom S]

I haven't removed the cam yet, but the lobes are trashed. All the lifters are either shattered, or close to it. Many are msuhroomed on the bottom and can't be removed the traditional way. Several have holes in the bottom that I felt with my hand.

The cam is a Comp Cams mechanical flat tappet cam, .650/.674 lift int/exh, with 265/275 degrees duration @ .050 lift

Venom_S

[Excaliber]

Sure sounds like no oil was getting on the cam lobes, or WAY less than what should have been there.

Ernie

[Venom S]

Hey Ernie-

How do the cam lobes get oil?

Venom_S

[Ron61]

Sorry to hear about your problem but also very curious. I agree with Fixit that if you had spring or coil bind at least some of the push rods should have bent or shown some sign of strain. I would really like to know when you find out what happened just what caused it. I have seen many strange things happen in engines but never 16 broken and smashed lifters. It almost sounds as if the cam stopped turning or something but the lobes being trashed also is strange. I had a timing gear break on the cam of my tunnel port 427 years ago and that trashed the cam and also several pushrods. But that was from the domed pistons hitting vavles that were still open and driving them and the push rods back. Let us know what all you find out please.

Thanks,

Ron

[Hotfingrs]

Did you pre oil the motor for at least 5 mins before you started it..

[Venom S]

Jack-

No, I didn't prelube the engine. In hindsight, I should have. We just fired it up and the oil pressure went to 75 PSI

The car ran great for a whole day, then it started to pop and run rough. Then it just died.

Venom_S

[trularin]

Fractures like that are more due to metal impact or sever temperature changes. Those are sharp edges in a smothe bore. That means something hit them or excessive force was applied very quickly.

Since the rods look like new, there are a few things you may want to look at:

1. If these are adustable or hydraulic lifter, where are the rest of the parts and what do they look like?

2. You may have recieved a bad set of lifters from the manufacturer. It would be the first time.

3. Are the guide out of alignment? Stupid as this might sound, they could walk out of the pocket.

4. How old was the assembly lub on the bump stick before youstarted it? If it was put in a long time ago, there may have been only the shightest coating.

5. I am not familiar with your setup, but it that a small block ford, Cleveland by any chance? If it is, did you have the galley mods done? The oil rail some people put down the center comes apart if not installed correctly and the lifter bores immediately starve causing them to freeze up.

6. It look like the side of the lifter was hit. how are the valves and pistons?

Hey I hope this helps and please let us know what you find. This looks way to strange for bind in springs or piston to valve problems. Looks like you got yourself a set of lifters made in Iraq.

Just bit of humor to lighten this. Sorry for your troubles.

[trularin]

Can you people tell I am at somone elses computer?

There are so many errors in the spelling and typing, I must appologize.

[Excaliber]

The cam lobes are generally oiled from "splash". The Cam BEARINGS are force feed with oil pressure, as are the lifters (if their hydraulic anyway). The rocker arms are force feed also. The result of all this oil "flying and splashing" around provides the bulk of the oil for the cam lobes.

That why you got to keep the RPM's up fairly high with a new cam setup, to make sure the lobes get "splashed" until the lobe and the lifter are happily married.

You can wipe out a cam lobe VERY quickly if it looses for even a short while. Pre-lube is good, but not a "killer" deal. After the engine starts and oil pressure comes right up, your all right.

The BIG question is: Just because you got oil pressure READING doesn't mean you got oil pressure INSIDE the motor where you need it to circulate!!!

Plenty of stories about blockages occuring AFTER the pressure gauge and the motor starving for oil with 75 psi showing on the gauge!

Ernie

[Clois Harlan]

In Feb just after I took my car to Texas for a run of about 200 miles my engine started to pop as I was loading it into the trailer to come back to Tulsa. When I got home I changed the oil and found metal on the magnetic plug. I immediately pulled the oil filter and took it to my machinist who cut it apart for me. More metal, parts of a spring and bearing material. I pulled the engine and took it to the machine shop and they found I had ground the bottom out of several of my lifters. I had ran that engine all last summer and fall plus I had taken it to Run and Gun (where on the last day I broke my back rocker arm). I don't know if some of my problems with the lifters started then or they had been slowly grinding away. But I do know my whole engine was junk after loosing all those lifters.

Cut your filter apart and make sure you don't have parts in between the folds of your paper filter. Be sure and check your bearings and oil pump. Pull the caps on #7 and #8 bearings and rods and look at them for wear. If you have any debris in your filter you have a lot of things to replace...I did.

Check your plumbing on your oil cooler. If you are looking at your adapter plate you should have a AN 10 fitting in the 5 o'clock position and one in the 11 o'clock position. The fitting in the 5 o'clock position is the outlet and should go directly to the inlet of your remote oil filter. The outlet of the remote oil filter should go to your inlet of your oil cooler (if you are using one-otherwise back to your adapter) the outlet of your oil cooler should return your oil to the adapter plate on your block and connect to the fitting in the 11 o'clock position. If this is contrary to anyone elses plumbing please feel free to jump in. We took my old block and put a light in the hole from the oil pump to the outside of the block.

I know you probably know all this but it may help someone else possibly. My lessons of late have been quite expensive.

Clois

[Venom S]

Trularin-

1. These are mechanical flat tappet lifters. If there are any other parts, they will be in the pan

2. When I ordered my lifters from Comp Cams, they said they were having manufacturing problems at the supplier. I may have received some bad parts.

3. The guides are fine. I checked.

4. The assembly lube was about 2 months old.

5. It's a 460 punched to 503

6. Don't know yet. I have to remove the heads and disassemble the lower end.

One more point - several of the lifters have holes in them on the bottom from excessive wear, as if there was no oil getting to the lobes, or that the material was not hardened properly.

Venom_S

[Venom S]

Clois-

Thanks for the detailed reply. I changed my oil after the first day (before the problems surfaced). The oil was dark and gritty, most likely from the lifters wearing away.

The magnetic plug had a lot of debris attached to it.

Put in new oil and filters and started it up. Ran for awhile, then the popping started.

Just a side note, I'm using a Morroso oil pan with a crank scraper. Could that be preventing the cam from getting adequate oil?

[Excaliber]

Crank scraper won't impact oil on the cam lobes or lifters area.

Ernie