Bought 428, got a 390

[bomelia]

I bought a 428 block off ebay (fordmaster351) but it appears he sold me a 390 bored 0.08 over.
It was bought by him from someone in Nashville, and I guess he was just trying to pass his problem along. All cylinders mike at or near 4.13 and it is a 66 model, CME6-?. The block is in awsome shape, altho I wanted a 428. Assuming I cannot get this worked out (returned,) can anyone think of a good way to turn my lemon into a cherry? Stroker kits, etc? I am not turned off about the 390, just miffed at the outcome. Or, does anybody want to trade?

[KobraKarl]

bomelia ,

worse than that........you may have a 360........ c6me? or you could have a 428, what are your rod lengths? or casting #?

KK

[Excaliber]

So how does it work when you buy something on e-bay that is NOT what it was claimed to be? If I thought I was buying a 428 and got a 390 I would be WAY pissed off at the guy that sold it to me. I could care less where or how HE got it or wether he knew or didn't know. Fact is, he mis-represented the motor and I would want my money back.

Boring\stroking a 390 does not a 428 make, regardless of the cubic inches when your done.

Ernie

[Doug I]

You could try Southern Automotive, they use the 390 to make 406's ...... other than that - yeah - I'd be torqued about it

[chuckbrandt]

C6ME-A and C6ME are pretty generic casting numbers. It could be a '66 - '68 428, but it could also be a 410, 390, 360 or even a 352! I happen to have a 352 C6ME-A right now. I think you really need a sonic test to see if there is some meat to the block at 4.13 (which is what a 428 should be) or if it has been bored within an inch of it's life.

Anyway I'm not saying it's a PI or a Cobra Jet but it _could_ be a standard 428. I suspect it is because most smaller blocks won't take that much of a bore unless the guy was very lucky.

Chuck

*comments based on "High Performance Ford Engine Parts Interchange" by George Reid.

[RICK LAKE]

Bomelia Befor you go crazy do a couple of things. 1st A 4.13 bore could be a 406 or a 428 engine if stock. Send it to a machinist that knows FE blocks and have him sonic all 8 cylinders and check for cracks in the block. magaflux it. SEE WHAT YOU HAVE. Check to see if the block is still aligned and square. The crank throws are what makes the displacement of the motor. From 352 to 428 they all take the same lenght rods. If the block is OK, keep it. If not send it back. Call E-Bay and find out about a return. You didn't say the price but you can always sleave the block. This is why buying sight unseen problems happen. What are the Mic readings?? You can take a 428, 30 over and be OK. I wouldn't do 7000 rpms with it. Do the basics with the block as fast as you can and call E-Bay. You didn't say what you where building your car for?? Racing,parades,orginiallity, or fun. A FE in acobra is still an FE. Cubes where from 390 to 428 from Shel himself. Take a breath and Check it out You may have a diamond in the rough. Let us know what happens. Rick Lake

[bomelia]

To KK: I do not have rods...just the block, casting numbers are CME6- (there looks to be a dash, but no letter following it) and the date numbers are 6D13. --Thanks

To Doug L: Yes, I am torqued and I am persuing him thru channels.

To Excaliber: You are right and I am pissed, but right now I am trying to figure out what to do. I already complained and so far it has had no effect.

To chuckbrandt: I hope you are right...and I am looking to get it tested. But what are the odds of finding a real 428 with essentially no wear, such that honing would make it look new (thus not requiring much if any boring.) However, there was a cylinder or two that measured a couple of thousandths under 4.13. Seems fishy.

Thanks!

[bomelia]

I have an idea. Perhaps if some of you look at the two e-bay postings, maybe you ca make sense of this. The first item number (e-bay, or ebaymotors.com) is 2411224657. This is the guy that fordmaster351 bought it from. Fordmaster351 held it for almost 90 days and then listed it as 2423066488. It looks to me that this block has moved around a bit.

Mike

[KobraKarl]

Rick,

..........................Do-oh!

KK

[chuckbrandt]

I don't see what grounds you have to say you were ripped off without a sonic check which would prove the block is unusable.

They said it is a standard 428 block that had been recently honed. I don't see what grounds you have to prove otherwise?

Am I missing something?

Have you tried the drill bit test? Go into the freeze plug holes and see how large a drill bit you can fit between the cylinders at various places and various bores. You can then do the math and see (approximately) how thick your cylinder walls are. That would be a quick test before spending the money to do a sonic.

Chuck

[zimmy]

Bomelia:

If indeed it is a 390 and you decide to build it, I have an excellent condition steel 390 crank, a set of rods and a set of cast-iron cylinder heads for sale. If you are interested, please let me know.

[R U YELLA]

To see if it is really a 428 is look in the center freeze plug. Do you see a 428 stamped on the inside? If not then no 428! Good luck!

Catch ya later
Ed

[bomelia]

Well, first, I am not claiming I was ripped off (hang on).

The odds of finding a pristine 428 seem a bit low. There were no ring ridges and it had been honed. Final dimensions on the cylinders indicate std bore 4.13. People who have looked at it feel the same way. Hey, if its trully a 428, then I will be the first to stand up and admit the mistake. But get this: The person who sold it is not even defending this. I suspect that he suspected the same thing. If it were a 428, then he should be shouting it from the rooftops. Why is he not? He seems to be the kind of guy who would know anything about engines.

And to everybody else, thanks. I will follow your advice. Truoble seems to be in finding someone to sonically test it.

Mike

[bomelia]

Chuck,

Thanks for the drill bit test...that makes a lot of sense. How much wall thickness should there be? I will look in my FE book when I get home also.

Thanks!

Mike

[Chaplin]

I'd follow Yella's advice. Pull the freeze plug and look for the 428 stamp.

[bomelia]

Yella, Chaplin,

OK, will do. Results posted tonight. Including drill test.

Mike

[chuckbrandt]

The gist of the drillbit test is that the bores on an FE are (I believe) 4.62" apart. So if you take :

(4.62 - your bore - your selected drillbit) / 2 you will get your average cylinder wall thickness at that point.

Bear in mind this isn't a conclusive test because it only measures the bore at one point and not even a very critical point, but it can give you an indication.

You will probably get many answers as to how much is enough. I would evaluate the thickness in the major thrust after you do whatever you expect to do to it for boring. (IMHO) I would want to see 0.120 in the major thrust direction (the outboard side of the right cylinder bank and the inboard side of the left cylinder bank). If the drillbit test suggests about that or more I'd probably go for the sonic test.

Chuck

[bomelia]

Well, the freeze plug test reveals all. Stamped inside is 352 So its worse than I thought. It will be going back unless anybody has futher insight. I did not do the drill bit test yet. Kind of sounds like I do not have to. What do you all think?

[Woodz428]

I've redone several 428's and have never seen or heard of the 428 stamping. I don't think a 352 would go out .130 without hitting water, they only have a 4.00 bore, and a 6.54 rod not the 6.48 that the others share. I'm getting ready to do a SCJ engine (an original engine car)in a few weeks and am going to check the stamping, but that's a new one on me.

[bomelia]

Woodz428,

Here is an interesting link:

http://www.428cobrajet.com/id-block.html

Point taken...I will have to do the drill bit test and do the math and put this to rest. Tomorrow.

In my block, 352 is stamped inside the water jacket. On the outside of my block is a casting number C6ME-

Yes, it has a dash, but nothing following. That's a bit odd, except when you consider that the 352, 390, and 428 all carried C6ME-A as a possibility, but only the 390 and 428 shared the C6ME designation (i have not checked other block sizes.) Looks like the "A" was ground off to minimize (or maximize) confusion here.

I would assume that by puting a block number in the water jacket, it would make it easier to identify and harder to falsify (grind off)

Take the test yourself and tell us what you find I really want to know if you see it.

Mike