Reading Plugs? Calling all FE experts...

[Rick Parker]

Oops! See below.....

[Rick Parker]

The distributor you are running is a dual point Acell unit. The points and advance mechanism are under a plate attached by 2 screws that are visable under the rotor. If you have not done so take the distributor/or the car to someone and have the points visually inspected and checked, they may need to be replaced or it could be the condenser, however most likely given the description of the acceleration will be some sticking advance weights instead of bad points. These are the "Cream of the Crop" for a point type distributor. The advance mechanism is very nicely done and the entire point assembly is in a sealed compartment out of the elements, although this makes it a little more difficult to service.

Regarding plug torque: Per the Champion plug book" Tapered seat plugs are "Finger tight then 1/16 turn" it does not specify a torque reading
Lastly be sure to check your ignition timing, that alone can have a big influence on the accelleration that the enginge provides, it can be overlooked.

Rick.

[Bill V]

This link point directly to a page on Autolite's web site and it contains the info you're looking for.

http://www.autolite.com/tech/TorqueSpecs.pdf

[Bruce Edwards]

Bruce,

Are you running aluminum heads? If so they use a different touqe setting in most cases. FE's have a tendency to loosen up the plugs after driving. That will show up as a residue on the threads or the base of the plugs.
Did you ever try to richen up the mix with the choke? Trust me on this if the engine is running lean you can find out quick with that simple step.

[era427tp]

While not strictly dealing with this problem,a caution to all ,platnum plugs and leaded fuel don't work well together.

[era565]

you have an exhaust manifold leak at the headers because your heads have 2 sets of bolt patterns, and you are only using 1 set. Get a set of gaskets from Doug at ERA that are special with only 2 holes per port, and you may need to belt sand each of your pipe flanges to get them flat. Use plugs with a compression gasket ring. you may have cross fire on 2 parralel plug wires--seperate them

[Eljaro]

If what you have is a bog or stutter, you may want to check your accelarator pump setting on your Holley. Check the play for lever to the actual pump, check the cam, it has two or three positions for more or less inmediateness and also see what injectors you have ( on mine , a 850cfm they are #31).
Also check your main jets. If they are too small (white plugs indicate a lean setting) you will have accelleration problems too.
I had a similar problem, which cured itself when I replaced the #76 jets my mechanic had thrown in there for I do not know which reason for a set of #85 jets.
Stefan

[luke-44]

Originally posted by Eljaro
If what you have is a bog or stutter, you may want to check your accelarator pump setting on your Holley. Check the play for lever to the actual pump, check the cam, it has two or three positions for more or less inmediateness and also see what injectors you have ( on mine , a 850cfm they are #31). Also check your main jets. If they are too small (white plugs indicate a lean setting) you will have accelleration problems too. I had a similar problem, which cured itself when I replaced the #76 jets my mechanic had thrown in there for I do not know which reason for a set of #85 jets. Stefan

Stefan - I think you may be onto something.

Thanks to everyone else too, for all the comments. I have moved the MSD wires per Bob Putnams sugestion, changed out the wires to new Southern Automotives 8 mm wires (actually this was for looks), retorqued and tightened the plugs, and reset the timing (which was advanced off spec maybe 10 degrees).

As I drive the car and get more familiar with it I am starting to get a better sense for it. I just got back from what I call the "25 cent" tour - a lap around my township - slowly trundle out to the main drag to get the passenger oriented, then turn left onto the main drag (Rt 42) go about a 1/2 mile, then right onto a long sweeper (real fun) onto the AC Expw'y , " blast off " onto the AC Expressway for about 3 miles, where I really let 'er rip, and then jump off at the first exit - 25 cent toll. Then trundle back home. Awesome.

The car absolutely comes on hard from about 4000/4500 to 6000, where the MSD chip cuts out - I'm sure it would keep pulling..

Now, I am pretty sure the low end stumble is carb or cam..... it is still very driveable - it's not even really a stumble - just not as much power as the upper rpm range. I think now I need to be looking at fine tuning the carburation.

Is there a good DIY website I can consult for this?

My knowledge of carbs is limited to my days racing a Triumph Spitfire - the old twin SU carb setup...the Holley looks positively complex to me. Can all adjustments and jet changes be done with turkeypan in place?

Comments as always, appreciated.

[Chaplin]

Luke-
What is your engine set up? What heads, cam, compression ratio, etc?

What jets do you have in your primaries/secondaries?

I had the exact same problems you are describing and I finally put my car on a chassis dyno this week to tune the carb. What I found was the motor was running very lean, which caused the same type or lean miss/hesitation and seeming lack of power that you describe.

The jets in my carb were 75 in the primaries and 83s in the secondaries (I have a mighty demon 750 with mechanical secondaries). I had to re-jet it to about 84s in the primaries and 92s in the secondaries. (I am going to experiment with going down on the primaries some b/c I pulled the plugs today and they actually look a little rich now). But WOW what a differnce. It runs like a different car now and the power is now finally what I expected it to be.

I would bet that you are also running too lean.

Hope this helps.

[luke-44]

Rick - I can't tell you how much your comments mean - they sound right on.

I can't answer a lot of your questions about the setup - I "inherited" the car (from the DEA) with 2000 miles on it, so I don't know much motor history. I now have the original ERA build sheet and ERA was able to determine it is a 428. I figured the carb size (750) after talking to daltondavid on part numbers.

My basic question is: Is there a good web site where I can learn enough about Holleys to take it apart to determine jet sizes?

Then I can work with you to figure out where I go with it.

Thanks!

[DuckRyder]

Bruce,

If you get the list number off of it (front of Choke housing, will look like 0-4478-11) you can then find the factory set up at: (probably)

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/CarbList.pdf

If (or once you do from the list number) you know the series, you can find exploded views at:

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...o/FMCTech.html

I'd suggest picking up a book if you are going to get too involved, but checking jet sizes is as easy as pulling the fuel lines and the 4 bolts out of each float bowl and looking at the numbers.

You're Probably going to want to pull the carb to do it, since I've never found a way to keep the fuel from going all over the engine.

The carb may or may not have limited reusable gaskets, and you'll want a base plate gasket on hand too.

I used to have a good website on Holley tuning, but can't find it right now, maybe someone else will pipe in with one.

Edit: Here is the site it might help, but these guys here are probably the best resource for a cobra application.

http://www.bob2000.com/carb.htm

[luke-44]

Tonight I went a bit deeper into my motor - pulled off the pan and vc's - and, as I learn more about the FE motor, I think I have finally found the problem as to why my car seemed kinda sluggish from idle to 5000-5500 rpm, and then goes like it's been shot out of a cannon until the msd cuts it off at 6000. Not that it wasn't fast, just that it wasn't fast.... - it was real fast for that last 500-750 rpm, but....it was over pretty quick

Here is my theory - comments appreciated - My heads are part # C4AE-6090F - I believe a 427 high riser head? This is on a 428 CJ motor with what appears to be aluminum Eagle rods and a zero balanced crank. My theory is the previous owner spec'd out a full blown racing motor.........at great expense to low end grunt.

As for the miss/stutter I was chasing- well, I think I was simply looking in the wrong area - a case of a virgin driver learning the car - as I re-read my own comments in the post, I think I see this now...fine tuning simply wasn't going to solve this one...

Comments? Am I now on the right track?

What kind of value do these heads with the matching high riser manifold have? Are they worthless or priceless, or somewhere in between? Can I swap 'em out for a regular set of heads?

[luke-44]

ttt......comments on heads/combo appreciated.

[Excaliber]

The high riser heads should not be a problem. Actually the med-riser heads flow very close to the same CFM but as they are a lower profile they became more popular.

It's not the "heads" but it could well be your cam profile. My 427 is pretty darn "radical". High riser heads, wild cam, tow four barrels. 1/4 mile in the 11's, the car is VERY fast. Pulls strong from down low, med rpm and up to 6500. Actually I shift at 6000 as I've found about the same 1/4 mile times shifting at 6500 or 6000.

I don't know what the heads are worth but I found out the 2X4 intake manifold (Ford OEM) is worth about a $1,000. I'm thinking aobut "experimenting" with a single four barrel carb and am looking for a high riser manifold to match my heads. Wanna sell yours?

Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure your intake manifold is the problem, better dump it right away.

[mr0077]

Bruce, my books don't list a Ford head with the -6090F number, they show -6049(X) for all heads...no help from my books.

[Excaliber]

C4AE-XXXX-F

For sure high riser heads. Made in 1964.

[luke-44]

Thanks for the confirmation, Ernie.

I guess I'll ebay them....I assume the Edelbrock aluminum Performer heads with matching cam is the best way to go with a CJ block?

[Bruce Edwards]

Bruce,

Just change out the cam. The heads and intake will work fine. Building an engine is and art. Pick the kind of HP and performance you want and build to that goal. If you do not like the way the engine is set up with the cam it has get one with a lower lift and duration. That will give you more bottom end power. Also make sure the carb is set up correctly and the ignition system is working well. A poor ignition or screwed up carb can give a lot of the same signs as an engine with a cam that is to tall for the rest of the set up.

[Excaliber]

You going to sell the intake also? What kind of intake is it anyway?

[luke-44]

Ernie - number on manifold is: C4AE-9425E. My plan was to sell both the heads and manifold, as I understand they only work together and are not compatible with other components.

Bruce - really? That would make this a lot less expensive proposition. What kind of cam specs should I be looking for to run with these heads? I am running a Holley 750 and I am getting ready to replace my dual point with an MSD distributor. I will verify what I have now for a cam - I do know it is a solid lifter - which, I think, is contributing to low-ish oil pressure - I understand it is not desireable to run a solid lifter in a 428 without modifying the block oil gallery?