hydraulic roller cam, what would you put in?

[lineslinger]

It is a "65 427 SO, I am plan on running a hydraulic roller set up, curious to see who is running a hydraulic roller set up, the cam you installed, and how you finished off the heads. Major components include rpm performers, blue thunder dual quad intake and a set of Holley 4160's. Block is bored .030 over, steel crank, eagle rods etc. etc. I know I am asking in the right place, thanks boys.

Mark

[jared1970]

Talk to Keith at Keith Craft (870) 246-7460. He's on this forum quite often, too. He should know what you need.

[Cracker]

NO HYDRAULICS - they're for the soft! Go solid and never worry about a lifter puck popping out and bouncing around the lifter valley only to spend an hour fishing it out on two occasions for more than an hour because of faulty Comp Cams roller rockers!

Do you get my point? God solid - I mean Go solid and don't look back! The above "experience with hydrualic lifters occured with my 428 and I swear never to place a set in one of my engines again, besides it's simply translated as - lower performance!

BTW, Keith Craft Racing is using a SOLID Roller in 427 challenge motor - of course!!!

[lineslinger]

Jeepers Tony,
Sounds like you are truly a solid roller type of guy, thanks for sharing.
Mark

[RICK LAKE]

Mark Kieth uses hydro rooler cams in alot of his motors as pre the threads you read. I would guess a .620- 650 lift cam with his stage3 head work done. You need to MATCH the intake,cam,heads, compression, and exhaust to get the best out of your engine. How high RPM are you going to turn? What are you going to do with the car? Run&Gun is coming up in Sept 22-25, Stop by and talk to some of the guys about your ideas. Another thing is buy a dynoslim or dyno 2000 CD and run the programs with your motor spec. Change cams and see the differents hp and tork numbers. My motor was 7 hp and 12 tork off between real dyno and program. Bigger is not always better. I am looking a cams myself for motor #2, Crane has a small hydro, 583-604, but a have found custom grinds that make more power with less lift. Something to think about. Go to the FE forum and ask those guys. Just a thought. Rick Lake

[Anthony]

You have to make sure your engine has oil galleries in the lifter area, as some 427 SO's were solid lifter only, and with these engine blocks, you can't run any type of hydraulic cam. if it is a hydraulic lifter block, it should have oil gallery plugs in the back of the block on each side of the cam plug.
if your block is truly a 1965, I would guess it is a solid lifter block.

[ENTDOC]

Dave is correct,no option for Hyd in 65 block.You will have to find a C-8 1968 block for that option.Better yet ,use a solid roller. chuck

[lineslinger]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the heads up on the block, the best I can figure it must be a '68 service block. The oil galleries are there and the end plugs are where they are supposed be. I am using George Reids book as a reference but I cannot find any definitive stampings, does this truly indicate a service block?
Either way I am still curious why some builders (other than Cracker) prefer solid lifters and others hydraulic.
Is this a high rev performance issue?

[Anthony]

I think you have the best options with the block you have. With a hydraulic lifter block, you also have the option of running "newer" solid rollers that have oil lubrication of their roller bearings from the lifter gallery, which is not possible if you have a solid lifter only block.

I think the hydraulic rollers are heavier than solid rollers, which means you have to run higher spring pressures to function at the same rpm's. In addition, I don't think hydraulic rollers like high spring pressures, so there is limitation to max rpm's. On the advantage, once set, hydraulic rollers don't need valve lash adjustment nearly as often as solid rollers, as if they get too much out of adjusment, the valvetrain can fail. Hydraulic rollers are in constant contact with the cam, so the transition to lift is smoother than a solid roller that first has to take up the valve lash, and there are more impact forces on the roller bearings which leads to failure over a period of time. This is where the newer solid rollers can help by providing direct oiling to their roller bearings, extending their life somewhat, but maybe still not as longlasting as a hydraulic roller.

Right now, I'm running a solid roller, about 1500 miles, no major problems yet. Maybe this winter, I'll check the lifters. Supposidly there now is a problem with billet distributor gears wearing out the billet roller cams, after only several races. I replaced my bronze dist gear after 800 miles, initially running conventional 20W-50, and there was some wear, groove on the teeth. After about 700 mi with a billet dist gear, I checked the teeth of the dist gear and the cam gear, and neither show any wear, but I switched to Mobil 1 10W30 right before I changed gears.

[Keithc8]

Here are the reasons for running a solid roller or a hydraulic roller as well as a solid flat-tappet or hydraulic flat-tappet. The reason to run any roller cam design is to better fill the cylinder with the same duration. With the roller design you can have a more aggresive design and not worry about wiping out the lobes. The flat tappet designs can not run as aggresive a lobe design because of the lifter design. With the lifter design being about square or flat it wears the lobes.
The solid will rpm higher because it is not relying on the oil to keep the lifter pumped up. A hydraulic lifter responds to lighter valves and retainers to get higher rpms. The hydraulic flat tappet is good for about 5500 to 6000 depending on these things where as a hydraulic roller is good for about 6200 to 7000. The same goes for the solids where the solid roller will rpm higher and be safer in doing so.
The main reason most people go with the hydraulic stuff is because they do not want to adjust the valves and the solid rollers will last about 6000 to 10,000 miles depending on brand and the spring pressure used along with how aggresive the lobe design is. This is why we use a lot of hydraulic roller because they last longer than a solid roller and they make more power than a flat-tappet. I also do not like to pull a engine apart when a lobe goes out on the flat-tappet stuff and makes a mess of the engine. Maybe this helps a little bit. Keith

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

My engine builder recommends not to use rollers, hydraulic or solids, He says the FE is an old engine not designed for rollers and one has to use the type of rollers that are attached in pair using a bar to prevent them from rotating. He says he has seen problems with those and it is not worth it for the street! Any opinion?