Dove's 427 aluminum block

[DavidNJ]

I sorry, but you're wrong. The mass on the crank is at most at radius of 3-4". Most of it inside of 2". In fact most of it in the main journals, if they large and not gundrilled as on an FE. There is very little inertia in a crank. May 3-6 lb-ft^2 in the heaviest big block. That is maybe 3-5lbf-ft of torque under aggressive acceleration. Most of the rotational mass of the engine assembly is in the flywheel and clutch which is at much larger radius.

Second, iron and steel are approximately the same density. Less than a 10% difference at most. And that is usually made up by needing extra metal to make up from the lower yield strength. In a big block crank, a lot of the mass comes from the counterweights to balance heavy piston/rod assembly.

Now, you could order the crank with gundrilled rods and mains. You could use small rod journals...even small crank journals. Those large sizes were designed for a big safety factor in 1950s engines with low end cast materials. You could build an engine with 2.25" mains and 1.771" rods, gundrilled. You could use Ti rods and short compression height, small ring, small pin pistons that would need less mass on the crank to balance. That would save weight.

Note that the effect of the inertia is dependent on the rate of acceleration. The amount of HP that translates to is dependent on engine speed. So an F1 engine at 20k rpm or a ProStock or Nascar engine at 10k rpm have a bigger interest in low inertia. Also an engine with 800hp accelerating a 1500lb car (higher rate of acceleration) makes more difference than in a 300hp engine accelerating a 4000lb car. Also note, that braking occurs at much greater rate than acceleration, and blipping the throttle to match revs even greater. So the effect is noticable there.

[Sizzler]

Originally Posted by DavidNJ

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Second, iron and steel are approximately the same density. Less than a 10% difference at most. And that is usually made up by needing extra metal to make up from the lower yield strength. In a big block crank, a lot of the mass comes from the counterweights to balance heavy piston/rod assembly.
...

I think you're missing his point: it isn't that iron and steel are 'approximately' the same density and therefore one would think that the weight difference is minor. It's that an FE cast crank IS (IS as is actual measured FACT) 17 pounds lighter than the steel FE crank. And both can be gundrilled and/or have work done to lighten them, but the crank is the same size, and the same lightening work would just result in one crank being STILL, 17 pounds lighter. On an 80 pound crank, that's more than 10% weight savings.

And all honors to theories, but actual real world facts are that the lightest rotating assembly, including the crank, wins.

As for the Cubs and Wrigley field. In my dotage, large sweaty foul-mouthed drunken fans and slatternly women in hard uncomfortable seats have lost their one-time allure for me. Even the skyboxes at Wrigley, well, let's just plain out say it: they suck too.

The new Sox stadium is much better nowadays, as long as you're down in the lower tiers, or better yet a skybox. Fans seem a better class too. Food is better (orders of magnitude better in the skyboxes), fireworks are better, access is better.

None of this is to imply I'm either a Cubs or Sox fan. Even though last year, I saw a game or two of the Sox, I'm more of a night-out includes a game once in a while guy than any sort of 'fan'.

Has anyone ever actually USED a Dove block? That's what tips my boat. Or at least have some reason, based on a 'theory' or fact, other than, "I picked x block just because"?

One theory I might put out there regarding a Dove aluminum block is this: I think Dove uses the same molding for aluminum blocks as it does for their iron blocks. Aluminum blocks should have some modifications made to their castings due to the nature of the materials. So: has anyone actually built an engine using a Dove block, aluminum or iron, and if so, what was the reality?

[Michael4yah]

Sizzler. I talked to Earl of Dove (sounds like a title) yesterday on their blocks. I wanted to be fair and talk directly to them rather than listen to people who may or may not know anything about it. Like I said I have many Dove parts but so far Im still leaning towards a Pond block. Have you seen em? They are beefy and beautiful!! I have photos in my "MY Pictures" but I dont know how to post them here. If you will give me your email address I'll forward them to you.
On the Cast Vs Forged deal, Anyone who has taken the two cranks and spun them by hand can tell the difference. It doesnt take a rocket scientist or fuzzy math to make up my mind. People get sold on the idea of a forged cranks all the time when the engine builder knows they dont need it. I think they do it for two reasons, one they make more money for sure and two He knows no matter what it aint coming back no matter how badly the owner treats it. I have never seen a adequaltely installed quality cast crank die in an engine of 700 hp or less. It seems to me that there are other things that will go 1st. Especially if your using a stock Cast Crank and Ford rods. Naturaly the rods will go 1st. On the Chevy journal rods who knows. Ive never seen one go back.
Michael

[Kwik]

Back in the day, I've heard that the many of the drag race guys with factory connections would run just typical 390 cast cranks in their 427's. They went faster. They could have had any crank they wanted.

[Barry_R]

I have run the plain jane small Dove rockers with up to 700 psi springs for many, many years with no breakage. I broke one pair, on one cylinder, back around '97 when I spit a head gasket and filled that hole with water.

Those same rockers were on my EMC motor at 759HP and 6500RPM. You had something else gone astray....

Should add that the same engine has a Scat cast crank - 4.25 stroke - and hit 672 for TQ....no holes in the pan yet...