FE Intake dyno shoot out............

[ng8264723]

I was reading a recent dyno shoot out (in the past year). The gentleman did all the popular intakes. The best was the blue thunder followed by the edelbrock streetmaster. All the popular intakes were done. The difference in HP was only 15! From the best to the worst. The worst was the PI but it's torque matched the best just a 15 HP difference. I'm sure this blows a few theories around here
chris

[ng8264723]

Buy the way a book of all the comparisons and head comparisons is in the works

[cobrarkc]

Where did you see this and how can I get the book.

[ng8264723]

The book isn't written yet. It will be out next year. Jay Brown on the FE site did ton of dyno testing on this stuff. I was amazed at the small difference of only 15 total HP b/t the highest and lowest intakes.

[Naumoff]

This is good info.
Do you have a link to the thread?

[Anthony]

There are several threads at different stages of his testing.

From what I remember, the engine was somewhat of a milder flat tappet hydraulic equipped engine, and the intake comparison may not be as valid for a true high output racing engine.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182...%234%2C+Part+1


http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182...%234%2C+Part+2

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182...%234%2C+Part+3

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182...ge/1166494693/

[Chaplin]

Tony-
Here's a link to the summary page. You can search around the FE site and get all of the posts on the subject. Jay really did a ton or work and put together a very helpful package of inforation. I will buy the book when it comes out!

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1172465086/

[Anthony]

Thanks.

You can see that peak HP weas about 5200 rpms, not that high, likely due to the cam used.

[ng8264723]

The power output and curves are very narrow. Although the engine is mild I don't think there would be much of a difference with the curves in a higher output or performance cam

[Excaliber]

5200 is fairly low rpm for a well built 427 all right, hmmmmm.

[496fe]

Once again, (for the five thousandth time) it is proven that changing one part of an engine proves nothing. He said that his Victor added 30 Hp. to a 600 HP motor but yet, lowered the Hp. on a 400HP motor. The bottleneck on an FE engine is in the HEADS, not the manifold. He probably would have gotten the same results (or lack of) by changing the cam only, or the carburetor only, or the air cleaner only.

He did a LOT of work, but bolting anything more than a Performer or a medium-riser on a 390 is a waste of time. Just ask KC, Gessford, or Southern whar their opinions are. Now if he had done all this work on a Chevy big block that comes with heads that breathe, the tests might mean something.

A Victor 427 manifold with ported heads is worth 83 HP over a Performer manifold with stock Edelbrock RPM heads on a 608HP engine - dyno sheets in my gallery.

I hate to sound negative after all his work, but I also hope that people don't rush out and buy one manifold or the other based on these tests. Try doing a CC search on "disappointed". The venerable FE, along with virtually every engine ever made needs power improvements as packages, not piecemeal bolt-ons.

Just my ever-so-humble opinion after going through all this myself.

Brian

[RedCSX1]

There is a great deal of valuable information in Jays work. You just have to be wise enough to understand it. The intakes that faired well for the most part are the ones that people always thought would do well. 496fe is correct when he states that one part does not make the whole and the heads and cam do play a major part in the FE motor build. Oh, I am running a ported Blue Thunder and I am quite happy with it.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by 496fe

Once again, (for the five thousandth time) it is proven that changing one part of an engine proves nothing. He said that his Victor added 30 Hp. to a 600 HP motor but yet, lowered the Hp. on a 400HP motor. The bottleneck on an FE engine is in the HEADS, not the manifold. He probably would have gotten the same results (or lack of) by changing the cam only, or the carburetor only, or the air cleaner only.

He did a LOT of work, but bolting anything more than a Performer or a medium-riser on a 390 is a waste of time. Just ask KC, Gessford, or Southern whar their opinions are. Now if he had done all this work on a Chevy big block that comes with heads that breathe, the tests might mean something.

A Victor 427 manifold with ported heads is worth 83 HP over a Performer manifold with stock Edelbrock RPM heads on a 608HP engine - dyno sheets in my gallery.

I hate to sound negative after all his work, but I also hope that people don't rush out and buy one manifold or the other based on these tests. Try doing a CC search on "disappointed". The venerable FE, along with virtually every engine ever made needs power improvements as packages, not piecemeal bolt-ons.

Just my ever-so-humble opinion after going through all this myself.

From what I have "read", not much practical experience, with the FE , the heads are the limiting factor, which is also the limiting factor on most other engines as well, whether you're talking sbc's, sbf's, bbc's, bbf's, mopars, as the most restrictive area in engines is the turn by the valve into the cylinder.

maximum power is determined mainly by the capability of the heads. What I am not sure of is with the engine Jay tested, a ?stock 428CJ, whether the 5200 rpm limit on power was mainly a factor of the heads or the valve train, or a combination of both. Anyways, no matter what, I would think an open plenum single plane intake would not be the ideal intake for this engine set-up, so comparisons would be better between the dual plane intakes for a somewhat milder engine.

Now if you have a very healthy engine, on the verge of max power, the intake comparison would be more interesting. What I found interesting was a comment that Barry made about a "worked" dual plane making more power from 2500 - 6500 than his "worked" victor. Very interesting.

[RICK LAKE]

ng8264723 Chris Jay B. has done alot of work with intake swaps and exhaust headers. He is going to write a book. Yes the FE heads are not the best flowing in the world BUT, AGAIN you can't compare all these manifolds on 1 dyno mule motor. This motor made over 100 pulls. The cam was not changed to match the intake manifold rpm limits. Same with the heads, how much porting was done to them. Compression of the motor. This is way they have 2 different motor build programs out on the market. If you put the correct numbers in you will get within 5% of the real dyno numbers. Msgt Craine will flow any manifold to get the ports within a 5-10% equal flow. Some ports there is a 40cfm differents between runners. The streetmaster was best overall because this manifold BEST matched the motor it was on. I have an FI motor. with a 6G limit. Big flat tork curve. Over 400 ft to 4,600 rpm and HP tops out at 5,400 rpm. The manifold is single plane that I made for my FI system. This is not a good match of cam and manifold. By changing some things like Flywheel wieght, Valve springs, and spacer for the throttle body, the motor has picked up some power and is sharper on running in a 2,700 lb car. Work on maken a good driviable motor for the car. I run 12.5 in the 1/4 mile. Car has a smooth idle, runs strong, and on reg gas. You can build a 480+ cube motor that will haul A$$ and still be easy on parts. I think it was great what Jay did, but like in other test done, ALL the parts are not matched for that motor. This is way Companies put specs in the writeups to match parts and show the power they added to a motor. Alot is done with mirrors and lights. . Jay's Dyno room is not going to give you the same readings as say, a dyno in Cali or N.J. When you build your motor, don't worry about 600HP, 400HP is a hand full in a cobra. Bigger is not always better unless your other half is in the same room as you. Rick L.

[Ford428CJ]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

ALL the parts are not matched for that motor. This is way Companies put specs in the writeups to match parts and show the power they added to a motor. Rick L.

Thanks Rick! I have said the same thing myself on that forum! I ran a F-427 intake for years and loved it. And on his 428 didn't do as well as others. Some people thinks its the gospel and its not! Everyone wanted to buy a streetmaster after that cam out. "EVERY engine is different" and it may not perform the same as it did on Jays.

Don't get me wrong! Jay did do a lot of work and I commend him for that. Its just interesting is all. Imagine how different the outcome would have been if it was a 650HP engine. Makes you think ....

[FFR428]

Also if you guys remember he had a rod bearing going south on the dyno mule. Also 5 out of 8 LeMans rods had loose and worn rod dowels. A bent valve and toasted springs as well. Jay thought some of the tested intakes most likely would of had better results if everything was even. With the dyno mule's failing performance decreased some. I agree Jay spent much time and money and has given everyone a good base to compare with. He can probably swap intakes in his sleep. I'll buy a copy of his book. Dave Shoe is another guy who should write a book!! Hope he does someday too. His capsaddle project is pretty cool. Well thought out and developed.