Dry sump

thorconstr · #1 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 07:39 AM

Any of you guys have a dry sump on an FE. What did you get? Where did you get it? Ease of install? How many children did you have to give for it? Thanks!

Jerry Clayton · #2 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 08:10 AM

If you are going to drysump a FE powered cobra , get it from the ORIGINAL supplier--Aviaid--Get original looking. working parts ---probably one of the only remaining suppliers of the right stuff

Jerry

LMH · #3 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 08:38 AM

Jerry beat me to it Al but Aviaid is where you need to go. They have original style set ups. http://www.aviaid.com/pdfs/fe.pdf
Larry

Rick Parker · #4 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 10:00 AM

I believe Pat Buckley had a Kirkham that was dry sumped with an FE.

thorconstr · #5 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 05:20 PM

Thanks guys, that helps. Larry, Hows your FF coming along?

PatBuckley · #6 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 05:36 PM

I did - used Avaiad. Toughest part was mounting the oil tank in the fender.

Probably about $4500.

thorconstr · #7 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 05:40 PM

Pat, Not to be a pain in the butt, do you have any pictures?

computerworks · #8 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorconstr

Pat, Not to be a pain in the butt, do you have any pictures?

I have some of Pat's pictures...

LMH · #9 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorconstr

Thanks guys, that helps. Larry, Hows your FF coming along?

The FFR belongs to my brother and is about complete. I have a Hurricane 427 and it's another story! The last time you were here, I was working on my garage wall I think. It's nearing completion and once done, my car will go in and the build will continue. For the moment, it's sitting on my porch under a cover and car parts are everywhere! I just moved the dual quad intake off my coffee table this evening! Good thing I'm not married as I'd be single soon I'm sure! I expect to get back to the build soon though.
We'll have to get together soon and shoot the bull. The guys (and gals) are getting together in a few weeks for a BBQ at Johns place, so hope you can make it. I think it's on Nov 4th if I'm not mistaken. I'll forward the email to you.
Larry

RICK LAKE · #10 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 06:39 AM

Pat Buckley How much room do you have to clear the headers? You are a greater man than me for cutting the fender on that car. I am going to get that tank but move the filler to a spot where you can fill. Where is the drain for the tank? You could put a tee in the line to the pump with a cap I guess. I may be wrong but thought that there was an old thread that said you need a valve to keep the oil in the tank or it would drain out over time into the motor. Any thoughts on this. Thanks Pat. Rick L.

Morris · #11 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 07:53 AM

Rick

As long as the line coming out of the pump on the pressure side is higher then the level of the oil in the tank....... you're OK..... like going up to the oil filter on a cross bar between the shock mounts.....

Dry Sump tanks like to find their own level....(they will blow oil out the breather until they find the level they want to be at)......... inside the tank..... and it's usually about a 1/2" below the baffle plates...... while the motor is running....

Morris

PatBuckley · #12 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Pat Buckley How much room do you have to clear the headers? You are a greater man than me for cutting the fender on that car. I am going to get that tank but move the filler to a spot where you can fill. Where is the drain for the tank? You could put a tee in the line to the pump with a cap I guess. I may be wrong but thought that there was an old thread that said you need a valve to keep the oil in the tank or it would drain out over time into the motor. Any thoughts on this. Thanks Pat. Rick L.

Rick - at the closest point there is about an inch clearance - but there is also plenty of heat barrier material between the two.

The drain for the tank is at the bottom of the tank.

I always crank the engine for a bit before turning the ignition on when starting cold to allow oil pressure to build up - this is enough to scavenge to oil pan of any oil that may have drained back.

Drilling holes in the fender was no big deal - I was told that aluminum has "memory" and would heal itself....

cdnus · #13 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 08:23 PM

That's the exact cap someone was looking for the other day on C.C.
Hope they see this post. I'll try & find them & steer them to this

Craig

thorconstr · #14 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 10:15 PM

Thanks for the pics!

Jerry Clayton · #15 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 12:59 PM

I have been running/building dry sumped setups since 1972---I have never seen or heard of a tank draining into the engine to find its own level---if it were to do that--it would have to pass thru the oil pump( highly unlikely) pass thru the lines to filters/coolers ( again unlikely with only a few inches of head pressure) and then have to go thru the engines oil galleys/bearings,Etc.

If the system is blowing oil out the top of the tank, the breather/separater system/method is inadequet

With a current tech dry sump pump a vacume pump is unnessary as it is possible to pull over 20 Hg with the lobe type scavage pumps and 10-12 hg with the old tech gear pump

Jerry

Morris · #16 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 02:36 PM

Jerry

I have been running/building dry sumped setups since 1972---I have never seen or heard of a tank draining into the engine to find its own level---if it were to do that--it would have to pass thru the oil pump( highly unlikely) pass thru the lines to filters/coolers ( again unlikely with only a few inches of head pressure) and then have to go thru the engines oil galleys/bearings,Etc.

On Can-Am cars and some Formula Atlantic and some of the newer GT cars you have to pay attention to your route of the hose so the oil doesn't leak out of the tank thru the pump and into the motor..... it has happened.......

If the system is blowing oil out the top of the tank, the breather/separater system/method is inadequet

All of the guy's running in Nascar and SCCA on road race tracks find the level of their Dry Sump tanks ...it is common and is different on each car...... depending on the tank and type of car and tracks it's going to run on ...... Your comment on inadequet breathing is wrong.....

With a current tech dry sump pump a vacume pump is unnessary as it is possible to pull over 20 Hg with the lobe type scavage pumps and 10-12 hg with the old tech gear pump

Not all pumps will pull a vacuum especially in FE motors ....we have tested 3 different types and they will not pull a vacuum in a FE motor..... or I should say they won't pull enough vacuum to do anything.....

Breathing or Venting of the large motors has turned out to be the best way to go......and we have over 4.5"inches of breathing on our motors..... and they make very good HP....

Morris

Jerry Clayton · #17 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 06:35 PM

Morris

My comment about the venting is not wrong--the problem is where the vent is located--in an application like yours and the ones you mentioned that use a lot of aero devices--the pressure balance over/around the vehicle will pull the oil out---thats why your stated about 1/2 BELOW the baffles works---

EVEN IN AN FE engine you can pull a vacume in the pan---the pan doesn't know what kind of engine its on--if you can't pull a vacume with a decent modern pump, you haven't got your engine sealed up

The last engine I have numbers on pulled over 20 HG all the way to 9500 rpm and was making 1370 HP. It was a pump will the lobed gears--the same type package with the older geared pumps pulled steadily over 10 HG at about the same rpm/hp numbers----

If you can't pull the vacume instead of trying another pump, fix the engine.

It has happened----yep _ _ it happens!!!

Jerry



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