wiped cams

[diegokid]

Every FE engine I've torn down had one or more wiped cam lobes. This one had four with a fifth well on its way. Is this a known problem with the FE motors?

[Tim Brewer]

It's a known problem with any engine with solid lifters and below par oil.

[427sharpe]

Do a 'net search about low phosphurus and zinc levels in the new 'Energy Conserving' type oils and you'll see what the rather cryptic message above means. It is a problem that the oil mfgs' know of, and several engine builders have also found...the hard way.

[diegokid]

I gathered this off of the web. It talks conciderably about the zinc contents in the new oils being too low. Claims that these are as high as .16 so should be good for older engines.

Castrol RX Super 15W40
Chevron Delo 400 15W40
Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15-40
Penzoil Long life 15W40
Shell Rotella-T 15W40 one of the highest
Super Tech 2000 (WalMart) 15-40 next highest
Valvoline All Fleet 15W40
Castrol Syntec Blend Truck and 4X4 15W40

[427sharpe]

Just make sure on the diesel oils you don't get "Delo LE"...different animal!

[Excaliber]

On the recent Marvel Mystery Oil thread it was mentioned (by more than one) that modern oil has everything you need all ready in it, no need to add anything. Well OK then... It was also mentioned Ford and other manufacturers know whats best for their motors. No doubt thats true, for their MODERN motors! Does Ford even make a flat tappet engine these days?

Newer is not always better. The camshaft makers, the modern oil engineers and many others have lately been saying, "Oops".

NOTE: I don't recommend Marvel Mystery Oil as a supplement to save your flat tappet cam. Nor is it useful for brushing your teeth, washing your hands and many other things. It has it's place, use wisely.

[WildBill3]

We have discoverd though our engine guys at K@M machine here in K.C. that ther is some help.We had lost several cams in the chevys over the years and they said Crower lifters would help they povide extra oiling on the lobe face provided by a machined flat that runs the length of the lifter.I was willing to try it and we did with outstanding sucsess,we have not lost a cam since.All our non roller rebuilds get the Crower lifters,im not shure about the ford applications but give them a call they do alot of Ford HIPO engines as well as regular rebuilds iv used them exclusivlly for years and they have my trust ther #is 816-353-4422 hope this helps...WB3

[undy]

That's the exact reason why I'll spend the extra dollars and go hydraulic roller.

[blykins]

Undy, yep.

[Excaliber]

Wimps...

[diegokid]

Whats Delo LE?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Wimps...

My feelings exactly. Seems like Brent and I go toe to toe on this issue 'bout every six months. Break your solid cam in right and use Brad Penn, or equivalent, and you'll be fine. Solids are inherently cooler than hydraulics and you get the joy of saying "Yes, it is supposed to sound that way."

[blykins]

I'll go solid roller too if the lifters are the right brand. It depends on what I'm building the engine for.

Just remember, just because it broke in ok this time, doesn't mean it will next time.

There's nothing more comforting than building a fresh engine, turning the key and knowing that the cam won't wipe a lobe....or not having to do a break-in dance for 30 minutes while keeping your fingers crossed and offering sacrifices in the corner of the garage.

[427sharpe]

Originally Posted by diegokid

Whats Delo LE?

"Delo400 Low Emissions" I ran across it in the local parts house yesterday. The bottle looks the same as regular Delo, but the face has a large gold 'LE' stamped on over the name. It is the stuff for the new spec lo-emission diesels (how is that for an oxymoron).

[RICK LAKE]

patrickt Pat my 482 motor sound just like a solid lifter motor. The only problem is, it's a hydro roller motor. Funny how those bars that link the lifters together have that clicking sound. Rick L. Ps no breakin problems with a hydro roller cam with .600" lift.

[Jerry Clayton]

Most of the FE cam breakin problems are self induced--First the engines had no oil to the tappets---then people restrict oil to the heads--then they use rods with no squirt holes and tiny bearing and side clearance---whats a cam to do??????No or little oil being slung/sprayed upwards onto the cam, no or little oil draining down from the rockers/springs, no oil around the tappet

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

Most of the FE cam breakin problems are self induced...

That's true to a certain degree. I can't argue against the "safety aspect" of breaking in a hydraulic (and Rick's going to have to post an audio clip of his engine before I believe it sounds just like solids...but it might, so don't get mad at me Rick). And performance-wise, today's hydraulics are pretty much just as good as solids.

[RICK LAKE]

patrickt Solids make more power in the upper rpm range to a point. The problem is 2 fold. First the cams have different lobe designs, so there is no way you are going to get a real comparision of solid verse hydro's. Hydro are less maintainance, that's it. Second part of the problem is the weight differents between solids and hydros. I found a way around the pump up problem of hydros, The valve lash is only.010" of the plunger being depressed in the lifter. This slows down the float problem. On my 452 motor with a .501-533" hydro lifter camshaft from crane. The motor would fall flat at 5,400 rpm. With the beehives #26120 I got another 450rpms without the fast dropoff of power. The lifters also have have been pumpup but still maken power. I saved 44 grams per valve on the motor. Thats alot at 5,500 rpm. I am looking at lightening my valve train, going with a bigger cam and turning about 6,700 rpm without any float problem. I will still limit my motors to 6,200 rpm but it's nice to know you have another 500rpm in the bag if needed. Has for breakin of a new motor, any motor with more than a single spring like abeehive would get the dampeners removed and inner springs. Good oil and 2 bottles of EOS and a bottle of Lucas oil suppliment. The other thing is PEROIL the motor. Start the motor and go to 2,500rpm and STAY there for 15 minutes. NO VARYING in RPM. I don't understand guys that spend 15-20G's for a FE motor and will not spend $3-400 more for a Accusump to work as a peroiler and racetrack oil pressure stablizer around long high G turns. Have a good evening Rick L.

[Excaliber]

Hydr vs Solid is kind of like the small vs big block debate, it will never end! On any given application you can make a strong case for either/or.

[undy]

Originally Posted by blykins

I'll go solid roller too if the lifters are the right brand. It depends on what I'm building the engine for.

Just remember, just because it broke in ok this time, doesn't mean it will next time.

There's nothing more comforting than building a fresh engine, turning the key and knowing that the cam won't wipe a lobe....or not having to do a break-in dance for 30 minutes while keeping your fingers crossed and offering sacrifices in the corner of the garage.

true dat..

Another thing of concern to me.. I'm starting to hear of more "after the breaker in" wiped lobes these days with flat tappets. Some of the SBCs, I'm hearing, are trashing cams 10,000, 20,000 miles after they were rebuilt. I'm starting to wonder if the non-roller cams require additives on a continued basis. Todays agressive ramping, duration and lifts, unheard of 20 years ago, may have surpassed the "long term" capabilities of the flat tappet, hydraulic or solid. Maybe today's automotive manufacturers have already realised this years ago, hence to demise of the OEM flat tappet. It would appear that "retro" will come at a price, with risk!