KC Pond 482-580hp. Does that sound right?

[Barry_R]

I've only seen really high RPM out of hydraulic rollers in cars that were required to run them by the class rules. They "cheat" them into acting solid by nearly bottoming out the innards with the adjusters. They always seem to poop out on me around 6200 when run normally. But thats where they belong anyhow...

That dyno sheet looks like it had a safe and honest pull on it. I am pretty confident that you could wring more bragging numbers out of it with a leaner mixture - 12.0 coupled with BSFC around .5 shows it pretty safely rich. A bigger carb would also help with the glory part of the pull. I recently tried a 445 incher that made 455 on a 750 and 485 with an 850 - no other changes. Now - put that big carb and lean mixture on your motor and you'll have higher peaks but weaker throttle response, and a higher risk as far as fuel toreance.

Sounds like a nice engine to me....

[blykins]

Barry, IIRC, this engine used "lightened" lifters with beehive springs, titanium retainers, and titanium locks.

[RICK LAKE]

Excaliper My motor with the 482 kit will turn 6,500 rpm if I take out the limiter chip in the MSD. The motor doesn't fall on it's face with valve float either. I have been running these springs for 3 years. I went from a 501-533 hydro cam to a 587-607 hydro roller cam from crane. My motor pulls to 6,200 without any valve float or lifter pumpup. I set the lifter lash at .015". With high rpm the lifter doesn't hold the vale open. On LS2 motor they are turning 7,200-7,400 rpm with any float. At 7,600 rpm all hell breaks loose with lose of control of the valves. Gessford builds great motors. George and company like running solid lifter camshafts in there motors. This is a proven and durable motor if maintained correctly. Comp cams is coming out with stronger beehive springs. If someone ever makes a rev kit, the 8,000 rpm range will happen. IMO if you have not tryed beehive springs, don't knock them until you tryed them. As far as your 2 motors running the 1/4 mile, running short pipes you have no back pressure and you loose HP in the upper rpm. The 2 motor is running with exhaust and the back pressure help the power bands. If you are looking for max power from your motor with exhaust sidepipes on you want to see about 1-3 psi of pressure at WOT. This will put you in the max power of both ranges, torque and HP. I am sure that George and Neil gave you a motor with 500+hp but I will bet you they got you another 40-60Ft of torque from less camshaft and matching the parts better. Remember torque moves the car, HP keeps the speed up. As far as seeing how fast the car is, Find a 1/4 mile of road, 1,280 ft mark it off and run it one evening. It may not be perfect but close will do. Watch out for the cops.

[RICK LAKE]

Barry R Barry the guys that won last year where running beehives. You are a pro builder, why I can't I convince you to try these things??? I have been running them for 3 years with 2 different motors and camshafts. I do limit the rpm to 6,200 but they will go to 6,500 if I want to change the clip. I don't like revving a stroker to these limits because of the weight on the rotating assembly. Comp cams is coming out with new beehives soon with higher seat pressures. I don't understand the issues with pumped up lifters if you run a real small lash setup. I run .015" with my motor. This number is almost 0 when the motor is hot. (all Aluminium Shelby) This covers the expandsion rate. The valve are not stuck open from lifter pump up. The Ersons are working great. They are very heavy. I am looking at a couple of other rockers for the 498 motor. I already have T&D for the other motor. LS2 motors are going to 7,400 rpm with hydro lifters. The guys I know are not bottoming out the lifters. Your guys must be either limiting oil flow and pressure to the lifters or enlarging the lifter bled hole. The beehives become uncontrolled at 7,600 rpm. 7,400 is the safe number now. When I get back to work I am going to send you a set of beehives to try on one of your EMC motors. You can tell me how it turns out. An avergae of 44 grams of weight saved per valve has to be worth something and the extra 400-600 rpm to the same motor. I know they are not cheap with the springs, retainers, cups, and locks. I run the #26120 on the motor now with a max of .600" lift on the cam. I am looking at the 25595 for the other motor with a .750" max lift. The seat pressure is less. Running a 11/32 valve or a 5/16" valve stem would also help with the weight savings. I may send my heads back out and have 5/16" valves installed instead of the 11/32" and save some more weight. How's the baby, getting big?? have agood evening Rick L.

[undy]

Don't discount the hydraulic roller. The Z06 guys are laying down over 600 rwhp SAE with hydraulic lifters, no nitrous or boost, just RPMs and motor.

[Rosco]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

I've only seen really high RPM out of hydraulic rollers in cars that were required to run them by the class rules. They "cheat" them into acting solid by nearly bottoming out the innards with the adjusters. They always seem to poop out on me around 6200 when run normally. But thats where they belong anyhow...

That dyno sheet looks like it had a safe and honest pull on it. I am pretty confident that you could wring more bragging numbers out of it with a leaner mixture - 12.0 coupled with BSFC around .5 shows it pretty safely rich. A bigger carb would also help with the glory part of the pull. I recently tried a 445 incher that made 455 on a 750 and 485 with an 850 - no other changes. Now - put that big carb and lean mixture on your motor and you'll have higher peaks but weaker throttle response, and a higher risk as far as fuel toreance.

Sounds like a nice engine to me....

Can you explain the A/F Ratio and what is optimal in a dyno "pull". I've seen several dyno sheets with different A/F Ratios and am confused...

Does an A/F Ratio of >13 or 14 mean to lean and not a realistic ratio or conversely, <10 A/F mean too rich and perhaps leaving power on the table?

Thanks to all,

R

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Keith;

If you would quit running around Arkansas and Louisiana with that dirt modified and stay home more, you'd have more time to work in the shop on weekends and build an Engine Masters engine!!!!!
BTW: when ya heading back to Thunder Valley?????

Besides being a "pretty good" engine builder,Keith is a racer, was probably a racer first, engine builder second.....is/has raced in some of the top dirt series/cars around these parts..........

BTW 2: I could use an engine sponsor for my road racer, about 550 hp/tq should do in a 331/347.......

I don't think I would ever go into the engine building business, no matter what someone paid me.....

seems you just can't build enough of those 700+hp/tq, 8,000 rpm,pump gas,idle @ 800 rpms,city driving motors that will last for 100,000 miles and run in the mid 9's on the quarter mile strip, for a measely few thousand dollars and warranty them for 5 years anymore!!!!!!!!!!!! seems that's what everyone wants now-a-days............

David

[RICK LAKE]

Diegokid If your run FI and lean the crap out of it. This will get you into the 20's. Remove the windshield and go with a helmet should be go for another 4-5 mpg. Coast down alot of hills for the differents. Get out and push up hill. Put the smallest cam you can find in your motor, lower the compression. That's about it. GOOD LUCK. Rick L.

[hi-tech cobra]

My initial question, "Does that sound right?" sounds like I'm not happy with the dyno numbers.

I am very happy it 'only' has 580hp. I just wanted to know what others have experienced with this setup to see if I was in the ballpark.

BTW, the dyno sheet is in my pic gallery.

[nmayes]

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

My initial question, "Does that sound right?" sounds like I'm not happy with the dyno numbers.

I am very happy it 'only' has 580hp. I just wanted to know what others have experienced with this setup to see if I was in the ballpark.

BTW, the dyno sheet is in my pic gallery.

hi-tech

It looks like your motor is close to what we had built. I had Keith build a 482 Pond Aluminum engine with Dual Carbs. It dynoed out at 606hp at or close to 6000rpm, with 589ft-tq at 4300rpm. More engine than I am experienced to run. I think I would have been happy with less. I told them what I wanted, and they went over and beyond what I asked. I will definitely have KC build my next engine, as I am sure you will too!

Neil