Installing a Tunnel Wedge.. and

[undy]

I'm going to be installing a medium riser Tunnel Wedge 8V intake system one the 482 soon. I've done quite a bit of research on the twin carbs needed and most "in the know" say to run either the Holley C3AF-9510-BK/BJs (600 cfm) or the C5AF-9510-BC/BDs (715 cfm). The majority seem to favor the BC/BDs due to the cubic inches and flow potential. The BC/BDs were used on the 65 & 66 427 S/C cars, along with the medium riser tunnel wedge. I hear Holley is making re-pops of both. I've been unsuccessfull thus far in finding a set. Could someone point me in the direction of a set, new or used?

Thanks!
Dave

[Bobcat]

Undy ... have you looked at the Holley 1850 List carbs ? They are supposed to be the aftermarket equivalent of the ones you are looking for . I`m running two of them on my 427 S/0 in my Galaxie as I was too cheap to pay the price for the originals . Mine are vacuum secondaries and highly modified by Competition Fuel in Tucson ... flow about 660 cfm each according to Competition`s flow bench .

[undy]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

Undy ... have you looked at the Holley 1850 List carbs ? They are supposed to be the aftermarket equivalent of the ones you are looking for . I`m running two of them on my 427 S/0 in my Galaxie as I was too cheap to pay the price for the originals . Mine are vacuum secondaries and highly modified by Competition Fuel in Tucson ... flow about 660 cfm each according to Competition`s flow bench .

Yea, I've looked at the 1850s but was warned by quite a few about tuning nightmares as they (and others) come factory set up to act as one carb. If I had a specialty carb shop that I could trust to set me up with a set of matched and adjusted carbs I'd go that route. If I can't get a lead on a couple BC/BDs I'll do research in that direction.

Dave

[Bobcat]

Dave ... Not that I doubt what you said , but I haven`t had any more than the "normal" problems ( PV rupture etc ) and my carbs were bought separately . Yes , I did have them blueprinted .... and I be glad to tell you what jets are in all circuits if you decide to go that way , but I haven`t had any real problems . The biggest "problem" I had was tuning the vacuum secondary opening with a heavy car . Used Holley`s quick change vacuum secondary kit to dial them in .
Either way ... good luck ... that ought be be a blast with a tunnel wedge MR intake on the engine .

[FWB]

the repops as i understand (which may be wrong) are avail thru certain suppliers only. i have a set on mine. mine were purchased thru carl's ford parts
he has a web site, with that being said the carbs i got were crappy at best,
they were new but required total disassembly and casting flashing removed from
just about every surface. nothing was nice except the fuel bowls. even had flashing covering some metering plate holes over 25%. i have at least 20 hours
into making them right. oh and they still leak. is it that i am just lucky or are they all like this? i can't say for sure but be forwarned. if i was making the decision now, i would go with the new carbs suggested in the previous thread. the 1850's
you can use any vacuum carb as long as it doesn't have secondary metering blocks, you must use the zinc type jetting plates for the secondary circuit because of clearance between the carbs.

as far as the tuning no matter what you buy you will have to jet them according to your setup, the factory jetting will be too lean if you as much as put in a cam other than factory lift and duration.

buy smart the factory repops don't offer anything except the ford numbers stamped on the airhorn.

[ERA Chas]

I agree with Bobcat. You can save money and kick a$$ with blueprinted 1850's. Mine flow 654 cfm each and work perfectly at 427 cubic inches.

[PANAVIA]

keep looking in the Holley #s or call summit racing and have them call holley. dual 1850s is the cheap way to go, and may work, but there ARE carburators MADE for this that are not REPOPS, and not 1850s

Steve

[undy]

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

keep looking in the Holley #s or call summit racing and have them call holley. dual 1850s is the cheap way to go, and may work, but there ARE carburators MADE for this that are not REPOPS, and not 1850s

Steve

I talked to Holley Tech yesterday, twice, and both techs said that they are currently making no carbs that are intended and/or calibrated for "dual quads" use. They also said that the exception is that Holley makes BC/BD and BK/BJ re-pops expressly for one vendor, Carl's Ford. They said that they don't even have the specs for the carbs available to them. They're instructed to refer all inquiries to Carl's Ford. I talked to Carl's yesterday too and all they had in stock is the BK/BJs. I think I'm going to wait till some BC/BDs turn up.. I don't want to suffer the potential of hurting my top end power.

Dave

[Barry_R]

Undy
Sorry for the delayed response - - crazy busy.....

We had one of the guys on Netwerk 54 pull a BJ-BK and a 0-150 apart and measure every possible orifice. They were essentially the same - no significant changes of any sort in terms of metering. I have no recent experience with the original carbs, but have run the repops on the dyno. They were really rich on a +/-500HP 427. So rich that I ran out of small jets for the primaries. It kept picking up power each step down - but at least it was not gonna hurt anything.

It makes sense that the 1850 and the Ford carbs were similar - the 1850 was originaly a Ford production single 4V carb. I've approached Holley about a non-repro dual quad pair with some changes - revised metering, downleg boosters, etc - but have never been able to put the deal together...

[lovehamr]

I ran 1850s on a Boss 302 for years and never had a problem outside the normal tuning realm. In fact, the best quarter mile time that it ever did was with that set-up.



Steve

[undy]

I just talked to Quick Fuel and they suggested building me set of custom 3310 (750 cfm) bodies with some billet metering plates, quick change secondary springs with all the dual quad programming along with all the bells 'n whistles of custom built carbs. The carbs will look exaclty like the OEM stuff too. It's a little pricey, but hey... that's part of the Cobra experience!!

[undy]

I know the common consensus is that 1850s will work, with the proper tuning. I feel that 600 cfm is going to be a little shy on the CFM side, compared to the BC-BDs @ 715 CFM. Most tend to agree.. I'm going to talk to a couple carb shops today and see what they can offer.

BTW.. Thanks Barry, for all your help!! Folks, call Barry and he'll take care of you.

Dave

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by undy

I know the common consensus is that 1850s will work, with the proper tuning. I feel that 600 cfm is going to be a little shy on the CFM side, compared to the BC-BDs @ 715 CFM. Most tend to agree.. I'm going to talk to a couple carb shops today and see what they can offer.

BTW.. Thanks Barry, for all your help!! Folks, call Barry and he'll take care of you.

Dave

Dave, am I missing something here. The 1850s are 600 cfm EACH. X2 = 1200 cfm. You planning on spinning that puppy to 9 grand?

Steve

[undy]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Dave, am I missing something here. The 1850s are 600 cfm EACH. X2 = 1200 cfm. You planning on spinning that puppy to 9 grand?

Steve

I hear what you're saying.. The same rule-of-the-thumb principles for a single carb, CFM wise, doesn't necessarily apply to a multiple carb setup. Several members on fordfe.com, 2 or 3 of our most trusted engine builders and the tech guys with Quick Fuel feel that 600 cfm carms are a little too small for my combination and I will be sacrificing some top end performance. I just can't let that happen..

That being said.. I've made a decision on the carb path I'm following. There is actually a "buy now" that popped up on Epay for a brand new in the box set of Carl's Ford sourced BC/BD carbs for $1K, a good deal for someone. I've elected to go with a set of custom built carbs by "Quick Fuel". They recommended building a set using new #3310 750 bodies and doing some trick "under the bowl" secondary adjustable jets, linkage mods and other improvements. The bowls and carb lengths will be same as the factory stuff. They will set them up expressly for my engine, flow bench them and they will look the same as the BC/BDs too (at least to a novice). The cost is just a small amount more than the above BC/BDs.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by undy

Quick Fuel feel that 600 cfm carms are a little too small for my combination and I will be sacrificing some top end performance. I just can't let that happen..

Obviously! Sorry to have doubted you.

Steve

[RedCSX1]

Originally Posted by undy

I hear what you're saying..

That being said.. I've made a decision on the carb path I'm following. There is actually a "buy now" that popped up on Epay for a brand new in the box set of Carl's Ford sourced BC/BD carbs for $1K, a good deal for someone. I've elected to go with a set of custom built carbs by "Quick Fuel". They recommended building a set using new #3310 750 bodies and doing some trick "under the bowl" secondary adjustable jets, linkage mods and other improvements. The bowls and carb lengths will be same as the factory stuff. They will set them up expressly for my engine, flow bench them and they will look the same as the BC/BDs too (at least to a novice). The cost is just a small amount more than the above BC/BDs.

I personally had problems with Quick Fuel as well as other speak I have spokejn with in the past. They sent me the wrong part and refused to send me the right part. Pain in the ASS.

I now have a Bigs 750HP on my Shelby. You might check them out Jesse (715)835-7626 or Pro Systems http://www.pro-system.com/products.html which has a very good reputation.

did have a 428 with dual 600's BJ/BK They were 600's which most will agree are too much for daily street use.

Hope it works for you.

[RodKnock]

I don't want to some dumb, and I know I will, but Branda offers BJBK's for a '67 GT500:

http://www.cobranda.com/19shgtrebjho.html

Very pricey, since the 1850's are dirt cheap.

[undy]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I don't want to some dumb, and I know I will, but Branda offers BJBK's for a '67 GT500:

http://www.cobranda.com/19shgtrebjho.html

Very pricey, since the 1850's are dirt cheap.

yep, probably buying them from Carl's Ford as they are the ONLY one that Holley makes/sells them to. They sell them for $995, a lot less than Cobranda.

They're intended for a comparitively mild 428, not big enough for my application. Even the 65/66 427 S/Cs used the BC/BDs that were rated at 715 cfm each.