1968 Side oiler converting to Hydraulic lifters

[smokeonthewater]

Hello FE fans. I guess this will have to pass as an introduction and a platform for a question. I've never posted here though I have enjoyed reading other postings for a long while. Clearly. I'm not in anyone's league here, but I do know a LOT more about these engines today than I did a month ago. Perhaps even, I know more than the machine shop I contracted with, but I'm getting ahead of the story below.

I have a boat with a couple of 427 Fords in it. Curiously, one is a side oiler and one is not. Last summer I started hearing some ugly sounds from the port (left for you land based guys) engine, which happens to be the side oiler and the run that runs in the conventional direction - left rotation. I had the engine rebuilt by a local shop who are well regarded, but hardly what you might call Ford enthusiasts. Because of the tight spaces in which this engine is mounted, I had to move the block into the bilge (basement) and finish the build down there so there was no test run done before installation. The engine had solid lifters when it came out of the boat and hydraulic lifters when it came back. The change was made without even asking me. Naturally, I called the machine shop and asked what was up with that. They said "no solid lifter marine cams available for that engine." Turns out that's not entirely true, but I was anxious to move on so I asked them whether they had made the changes to the oil gallery plugs required. They said "none required. we do this all the time." Now I'm no expert as already confessed, but I thought I recalled some work that had to be done first. Instead, I decided to just believe them. Now we are at the crux of the problem. Of course the lifters never pumped up, and the engine runs very poorly as you may have guessed. I'm surprised it runs as well as it does. So after a couple hours of running, I removed the intake and was hoping that I could remove the plugs covering the center gallery to lifter gallery passage. The engine was cast and drilled for hydraulics, but has been set up from the factory as a solid lifter engine. I was hoping that there would be a second plug under that, but instead I find that the passage is plugged by something. Here's my question. What was typically used to plug those passages? I suspect that it is some type of cap plug but it is difficult to know. I'm wondering if it is possible to remove these? Most of the information I can dig up seems to discuss going the other way - from hydraulic to mechanical. In the end, that may be my best option. I have found a new Chris Craft OEM cam and might end up putting it back in, but that's more involved than I care to get right now. Anybody ever seen these plugs?

Here's a couple of pics.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e7...anspassage.jpg

The first photo is down the hole under the allen set screw that covers the passage from the main center gallery to the lifter gallery.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e7...ithoilhole.jpg

The second link is looking down the lifter bore where you can see that the oil passages are there - just plugged.

Any help or comments are appreciated. Yes I know that I put myself in this position, by my own ignorance. I'll take the hit on that. Just trying to get myself back on the water with the least amount of aggravation at this point.

Regards

Eric

[Jac Mac]

If its been plugged with a small 'cup' type gallery plug you should be able to punch a hole in the center & screw in a coarse thread screw to remove it. But I have a gut feeling that you have an original mech cam block and those two drilling from the main gallery to the lifter galleries have never been made, in which case you will have to do so in order to run the hyd cam. To do it 'right' & ensure no debris gets into the main gallery to cause future problems its going to have to be stripped-again. Or you have the option of going back to mech cam/lifters on this or both motors.

[smokeonthewater]

Appreciate the reply,

Could the lifter bores be drilled out without drilling throught the area at the bottom of the main gallery to lifter gallery transfer passage? That's the reason I was leaning to some sort of cap put in after the fact.

Eric

[Jac Mac]

If the drilling's extend virtually down to the gallery for the lifter bores, but for some reason have not been 'broken thru' into that gallery then by using a very slow drill it might be feasible to do just that aided with magnets, shop vacuum, etc to catch the chips. Still scary though, only takes one chip to find its way down to a rod bearing to ruin your day. Not worth the risk IMHO.

[FWB]

hard to tell what is in that hole from the picture. spin the oil pump with a drill and see if oil comes out of the lifter bores. if no then they might have it plugged in another location. to the right of your cam in the front of the block there is an access hole, to the oil galley plug. this may be a pressed plug or a pipe plug. behind it there may be a plug pressed in there, it would be about
3\8 in diameter, this blocks the left bank. also check the rear of the motor, at the cam plug
are there two removable plugs at 10 and 2 o'clock if no then its not a hydraulic block if so they might have the galley blocked there.

[PANAVIA]

that looks like the oil feed to the lifter, the plugs need to come out if you are going to run hydraulic.

Post 64 427 blocks could be finished either way I believe.

Steve

[Clois Harlan]

I think this is a question you may want to pitch to a couple of guys that are known for their FE engines. Contact Keith Craft or George Anderson. Both are listed as sponsors on this site and have an enourmous amount of information on the FE conversions. I wouldn't take another step until I spoke to one of those guys!

Clois Harlan

[smokeonthewater]

Funny you should mention George. I'm aware of him from an unrelated forum. I did email him previously about this situation but I should give him a buzz.

If nothing else, I may try hitting down the center of the passage with a sharp punch to see if it really is a cap plug. What's the worst that could happen? -- Yeah, on the other hand, maybe I better talk to George first. I appreciate very much the comments from other members.

Eric

[Archrms]

Eric, looks like that engine is toast now. I'll give you $100 for it

[smokeonthewater]

"Eric, looks like that engine is toast now. I'll give you $100 for it "


My mom warned me about guys like you. ;-)

[Archrms]

Someone was going to say it eventually, I just beat them to the punch

[smokeonthewater]

The irony of the whole situation here is not lost on me. I've got this side oiler engine that is probably a pretty desirable engine to some people, but for me it's actually a liability when it comes to procurring weird solid truck cams, cam bearings and low compression pistons. Then, any investment I make in it is of almost no value to any of the enthusiasts who might want it for a car. Frankly, if a guy had driven by the boat with a fresh 390 the day I pulled it out and said "let's trade", we would have both left there thinking we got a good deal. Today, I'd be on the water and he'd be posting here about his new building plans. But, then - timing is everything. Rest assured this block will come back around a few years down the line, having been babied with it's 4000 rpm redline. (3000 for all practical purposes)

Eric

[Jerry Clayton]

Anything look familiar Bob????

[bulletbrown]

Jerry I thing I have seen this one before, Smoke onthe water, A quick question , is that a 427 engine that came in the boat ?original to the boat ? Why I ask is the 427 marine engines where not drilled out to feed the mains from the side . Yes they look the same but there not side oilers . I just had a 1966 428 built and Jerry had to drill small holes out to get the oil flow it needed . It was a solid lifter engine also .

[smokeonthewater]

bulletbrown

Yes it's the original engine that came with the boat (Hatteras 38) in 1968. There's a handful of these sideoilers around the boat scene. I know of 4 others. There are PLENTY of topoiler 427's though. Speculation is that Ford got stuck with a shortage of inventory at some point in 1968 and had to ship these side oilers to fill an order to Chris Craft who did the marinization. No doubt a waste of good machining, but if that's what it took, well so be it.

I don't blame your skepticism regarding whether it's REALLY a side oiler. I've talked to more than a few people who are confused about what it is. If seeing it will help you believe, here's a picture.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e7...v/leftside.jpg

Interesting though about your friend having to drill out the bottom of the passage.

Eric

[Anthony]

from the pic, it looks like the side oil gallery feed to the bearings are drilled, that is they have plugs, but, from the back of the block, it should have two gallery plugs down near the drivers side bottom of the block where the main galleries were gun drilled.

[smokeonthewater]

Well, there's some resolutioon to this story.

We found a solid lifter cam "close enough" to the OEM cam and I'm putting this back into the engine. Thanks everyone for the help. I think I'll make the other cam into a lamp fixture.
Eric

[Keithc8]

It sounds like the guys that worked on your engine did not even have the top oil galley plugs out of the engine or they would have seen that these were blocked. They should clean every oil galley well before they assemble an engine and if they had done that they would have sen these galleys blocked. Ford drove a solid pin in these galleys and you pretty much have to drill them out when you have the engine apart. We even like a small amount of oil going to the lifters when they are solid flat tappets to help oil the bottom of the lifter for better life. This where some people know what to with a FE angine and some don't.
We have even started oiling the pushrod cups up through the pushrods since the oiling through the shafts is not very good and will show signs of heat with any spring pressure at all. You have an endurance engine so some oil through the lifter passages would not be a bad thing with the solid lifters as well.
Be careful breaking in the new solid flat tappet camshaft because there have been a lot going out over the last few years. You would be best with some special break in oil and Comp Cams additive. Good luck, Keith Craft

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by smokeonthewater

I think I'll make the other cam into a lamp fixture.
Eric

I think I'd use it as an inter-rectal machinist correction device.

Steve

[smokeonthewater]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

I think I'd use it as an inter-rectal machinist correction device.

Steve

Yeah a High Lift Long Duration application.
Ya know - he would never even admit that he screwed up.

Eric