Seriously thinking webers. Weber guys -your feedback

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Stentor

I have "pulled the trigger" and am having a set of 58 mm Berg IDA carbs made for my FE, and should have them on my car in a couple weeks. I didn't go with 48 mm Webers because I was concerned they would be too small for my bored and stroked FE (at higher RPMs).

Stentor, may I ask what made you concerned that the 48's would be too small for your engine. Rokndad a few months back installed Webers on his 482 and I think he's running rich somewhat. I'm not an expert in any of this, but Rokndad's engine was making 640 HP before the Webers and, while I'm not sure, I believe he feels that the 48's are plenty for his engine.

I just have always toyed with the Webers idea, but darn that carb, it's so darn simple and it does such a great job.

[rokndad]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Stentor, may I ask what made you concerned that the 48's would be too small for your engine. Rokndad a few months back installed Webers on his 482 and I think he's running rich somewhat. I'm not an expert in any of this, but Rokndad's engine was making 640 HP before the Webers and, while I'm not sure, I believe he feels that the 48's are plenty for his engine.

I just have always toyed with the Webers idea, but darn that carb, it's so darn simple and it does such a great job.

Hand that man a cigar. I haven't had the car on a dyno since the conversion to 48 IDA's, but I can feel an instant difference in throttle response and it sure ramps up to 120 mph a lot faster than with the Holley. Scary before, frightening now.

Yes, still a little rich, but getting better with time. Still fussing a little with the idle circuit and getting rid of laminar flow through the hood scoop over the tops of the velocity stacks. Making offset baffles for the scoop.



Saw this on a really nice original 289 FIA car with Webers last Saturday at the LASAAC show.

Other than that, I couldn't be happier with the switch. With 40 mm chokes I feel it's getting plenty of air. Well, more than I'll ever be able to handle.

[427fairlane]

wow seems you all know alot about webers i had a set of 48 idas on a 390 12.5 cobra jet headed 390 killer it had a 1050 dominator and went 11.30 at 119 changed to the webers and boom 11.02 123.10 in a 3500 pound 67 fairlane i bet 600 plus hp in a cobra is a killer rush thanks guys for all the cool stories 175 165 f2 600 627 256 266 108 cam in the 390 solid cam dynamics oh yea almost there with the 458 427 cant wait jerico no more top loader

[coinop101]

I also get 6 MPG with my webers 48 IDA's . 25 miles to work 4 gal's of gas . Most of it in traffic ( L.I.E. and Van Wick Expressway ) . Not complaining , love my webers .

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by coinop101

I also get 6 MPG with my webers 48 IDA's.

Curious how much of that fuel becomes cylinder wash? That just seems to be an insane amount of fuel that is getting through an engine that is not at WOT most of the time. How often do you Weber guys change your oil?!?

-Dean

[rokndad]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

Curious how much of that fuel becomes cylinder wash? That just seems to be an insane amount of fuel that is getting through an engine that is not at WOT most of the time. How often do you Weber guys change your oil?!?

-Dean

Dean,

Is that you thinking about Webers???!!! Doug and I were discussing this over the weekend.....you need to pull the trigger man. Your cam is fine....my cam is lot more radical and it idles and ramps up the rpm spectrum fine, thank you very much.

RE: fuel economy. I averaged about 10.5 mpg on the freeway with the Holley (toploader with 3:31 rear). I now average 10 on the freeway with the Webers, and I think they're still a little rich. Some fuel does indeed wash down into the cylinders after a hot run, but it's not much. Most of it spills onto the intake where the throttle body gaskets are. In any event it's not much.

I change the oil every 1500 mi or so, and did that when I had the Holley on it as well. Every 1500 is when I notice the oil down a bit on the dipstick, so I simply change it. Have the lift so it's a 20 min job. Go Webers!!! Call me if you want to talk about them.

Tom

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Stentor, may I ask what made you concerned that the 48's would be too small for your engine. Rokndad a few months back installed Webers on his 482 and I think he's running rich somewhat. I'm not an expert in any of this, but Rokndad's engine was making 640 HP before the Webers and, while I'm not sure, I believe he feels that the 48's are plenty for his engine.

I just have always toyed with the Webers idea, but darn that carb, it's so darn simple and it does such a great job.

Rod,

Based on conversations with various folks (e.g., Inglese, Pierce, Keith Craft) as well as calculations using information and algorithms from a variety of sources, the optimum choke/venturi size for Webers on my 511 ci FE is between 49 and 52. The 48 mm Webers would not accommodate this large of a choke (from what I've been told for a street car it's not practical to go above a 42 choke with 48 mm IDAs--as low-end performance will suffer).

Furthermore, the estimated HP loss from switching from a carb to 48 IDA Webers on my engine ranged from 60 HP to 150 HP (something on which I didn't want to compromise).

The good news is it looks like the 48 IDA FE manifold is going to work just fine with the Berg 58 mm IDAs.

I will keep folks posted.

Stentor

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Stentor

Rod,

Based on conversations with various folks (e.g., Inglese, Pierce, Keith Craft) as well as calculations using information and algorithms from a variety of sources, the optimum choke/venturi size for Webers on my 511 ci FE is between 49 and 52. The 48 mm Webers would not accommodate this large of a choke (from what I've been told for a street car it's not practical to go above a 42 choke with 48 mm IDAs--as low-end performance will suffer).

Furthermore, the estimated HP loss from switching from a carb to 48 IDA Webers on my engine ranged from 60 HP to 150 HP (something on which I didn't want to compromise).

The good news is it looks like the 48 IDA FE manifold is going to work just fine with the Berg 58 mm IDAs.

I will keep folks posted.

Stentor

Yes, please keep us posted. While I think the 48's would be enough for my 482, I wasn't aware that you have a 511. More cubes is definitely a good reason for the bigger IDA's. Thank you for sharing.

[bobmeusel]

Go with the Webers. I run 44 IDF's on a 347 stroker. You need to balance them about every 2 to 3 rides. You will learn that EVERYONE has their opinions on Webers and how to tune them. Best to find out yourself. There are a few good books out there. One of the most frustrating things is the lack of a logical relationship between emulsion tubes and the numbering ID system of those tubes. I have found the Webbers provide great power RIGHT NOW all the way through the RPM range. The also look fantastic. If you have the coin and the time to figure them out, you will love them like I do.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by bobmeusel

Go with the Webers. I run 44 IDF's on a 347 stroker. You need to balance them about every 2 to 3 rides. You will learn that EVERYONE has their opinions on Webers and how to tune them. Best to find out yourself. There are a few good books out there. One of the most frustrating things is the lack of a logical relationship between emulsion tubes and the numbering ID system of those tubes. I have found the Webbers provide great power RIGHT NOW all the way through the RPM range. The also look fantastic. If you have the coin and the time to figure them out, you will love them like I do.

It's actually the time to rebalance every 2-3 rides that could be the problem. However, if my buddy Rokndad can come up North and give me a lesson or two (or three or four), then I might be able to handle it. I need a step-by-step in person tunning session in order to get things through my thick skull.

[rokndad]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

It's actually the time to rebalance every 2-3 rides that could be the problem. However, if my buddy Rokndad can come up North and give me a lesson or two (or three or four), then I might be able to handle it. I need a step-by-step in person tunning session in order to get things through my thick skull.

Ol' Bob there must have something else happening. You DO NOT need to readjust the settings on the Webers every two or three runs, or every two or three months, or, well you set the time period. I say they're more like the Popeil Showtime rotisserie barbeque....set it and forget it. Once dialed in to your specific needs and liking, they're no different than any other carb. How often do you adjust the settings on your Holley or AFB after they've been properly set up? Almost never, right? Same deal here.

I have been tweaking these IDA's a little here and there, but it's a fuel mixture optimization quest. I'm not doing this on a dyno so it's more of a shady tree mechanic thing, but I like it. Quite frankly, I could run forever the way they are right now and not fret. But it's the ever constant quest for just that little more. Besides, like Rick said, it's the most fun I've ever spent on a hot rod in my 60 years...oops, did I just say that? Got to lose a few pounds too.

Rodney, it would be my pleasure to come up bayside and give you a hand. Anytime.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rokndad

Got to lose a few pounds too.

Now were talking about area where I have some expertise. Spend 90 minutes at the gym like I did tonight.

[RICK LAKE]

Al I got gaskets from the friend that has 48 and 58 MM base gaskets. I see now that the bolt patterns are the same from point to point. There will be alot of grinding to get the openings to match and in some spots a very narrow piece of mount surface left to work with. Vacuum issues may be a problem over heat cycles. Time will tell. Rick L.

[Full Throttle Al]

Rick,
I have asked Berg to send a picture of the mounting surface of the 58 carb, ideally next to a 48 carb, similar to the picture above side by side.
Stentor,
Please post some pics of you new carbs when you get them, ideally the mounting surface with a ruler along side.
From what I have read and heard, there should not be any problem and no modifications needed but we will know when Stentor gets the carbs.

Thanks,
Full Throttle Al

[Rick Parker]

Ever see pictures of the 58mm Webers mounted on a manifold with the carbs in a row (that's what I'd call it) much like on a Ferrari, pretty unique and easier to syncronize for sure. I'm amazed at the phyisical size difference between the 48's & 58's.

[RICK LAKE]

Rick Parker Wayne J is the only one I know with that manifold. Not sure how many where made but it's sharp to look at . The big thing was it's on a Cammer Rick L.

[Full Throttle Al]

[Full Throttle Al]

Original SOHC 58mm manifold

[cobraviper_99]

Many discussions on this forum about Webers from tuning to performance to cost, etc. I have never regretted going with my 48IDA's. When you get into the tuning process, you'll actually hear your engine talk to you and tell you what makes it happy. Stumbles, backfires, carbon deposits on the plugs are the equivalent of a baby crying. It's telling you it's not happy and now the journey begins in giving it what it wants. Once you hit the setup and stuff that throttle to the mat, any doubts you had about whether or not to take the Weber plunge disappears instantly.

[Full Throttle Al]

Rick,
We are both correct. Per the response below from Berg, the mounting pattern for the 58 carb is the same as the 48 IDA but modification of the manifold IS required:

Mr. Sorkey, Our Berg IDA carbs have the same stud pattern as the original Weber 48 IDA. The top of the intake manifold needs to be opened up for the larger throttle plate in our carbs.

Sincerely,
GENE BERG ENTERPRISES

Tim Walker
Parts Manager