Canton oil pan gasket

dcdoug · #1 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 11:14 AM

I have a 427 with a Canton pan and need to replace the gasket. I know that Canton makes their own gasket: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-88-800C/ but have also had the Milodon gasket recommended to me: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-40450/ by someone who has had success with them.

Thoughts? Other suggestions to get a good leak free seal?

ERA Chas · #2 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 12:42 PM

Milodon gaskets (2 if you have a tray) and Mr. Gasket serrated head bolts.

garry viohl · #3 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 02:24 PM

I will save you a lot of work. I had the milodon gaskets and they leaked in the rear, I tried two times with them. Now I am using Felpro rubber coated gaskets, no leaks. Good luck!

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FPP-1817/

Did you line bore your mains? If so, your rear main cap will sit lower than the oil pan rail. Use some peratex #2 form a gasket just on the rear main cap.

ERA Chas · #4 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 03:17 PM

Well I had the exact OPPOSITE experience and thought I was saving you work.

Should have expanded my post:
I changed 3 sets of the same rubber coated Fel's over time, with different fasteners and various adhesives and each set leaked-immediately.

Milodons with Motorsport gray silicone sparingly applied and the Mr. Gasket bolts changed all that. The Fel's were pushing out over time (not from overtightening) and Milodons have not.

Take your pick.

dcdoug · #5 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 03:57 PM

I have felpros on their now and I am getting pushout, which I believe is causing the leaking. What's the big benefit of the serrated bolts versus standard?

patrickt · #6 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I have felpros on their now and I am getting pushout, which I believe is causing the leaking. What's the big benefit of the serrated bolts versus standard?

Doug, studs are best -- it's much easier to align the gasket and pan when you have studs in there. Cork, black RTV, and make absolutely positive that your pan is flat.

ERA Chas · #7 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Doug, studs are best -- it's much easier to align the gasket and pan when you have studs in there. Cork, black RTV, and make absolutely positive that your pan is flat.

I use studs in 2 positions to locate the pan. Barry R recommended the serrated bolts and and they hold torque much better. The whole stud backs out, not just the nut loosening. As stated earlier, I've been through this before.

patrickt · #8 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 05:16 PM

Maybe he's over-torquing them? Doug, don't torque it too much -- 10 ft/lbs is plenty, and go around the pan doing a little at a time on each so it doesn't squish out the side.

dcdoug · #9 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 06:01 PM

The car and engine are new. As soon as I had run a few hundred miles, I started getting a small leak and figured I just needed to snug up the pan bolts (did the same for the valve covers and was gentle). I was gentle with the torque and only went to 16 lbs (Steve Christ's book lists the range as 12-16lbs if I remember right). But didn't help. So since I had the leak anyway, I did snug them up again (still only used a 3/8 rachet so I wouldn't overdue it) and didn't make any difference. They might be over-torqued a bit right now. But figured it was worth a shot since the next step was to replace the gasket anyway.

So I think a couple of studs makes sense and then I will probably stay with bolts for the rest. Loctite on the studs? Is it best to use two on either side to locate the pan?

And I guess for the gasket, the Milodon cork and black RTV seems like the option to try?

One last question - is this going to be a PITA if the car is only up on jack stands and not a lift? Doesn't seem like it will, but then I'm the rookie, so comments are welcome.

patrickt · #10 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 06:13 PM

Try one stud on each side, not at the back corner but one up from that towards the front of the car. Clean your pan and block where they touch with brake cleaner so it is clean as possible. Some people will tell you to use black RTV sparingly; I have a bead the entire way around on both the pan and windage tray. Torque the bolts in small increments going around so that it's even. Torque it to 10lbs; you can use a little LocTite blue, or glob a little RTV on the bolts if you'd like. The pan really needs to be clean and straight. I can't over-emphasize that.

ERA Chas · #11 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 06:15 PM

See comments within:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

So I think a couple of studs makes sense and then I will probably stay with bolts for the rest. Loctite on the studs? Is it best to use two on either side to locate the pan?
Yes Locktite, yes one per side. Serrated head bolts from Mr. Gasket. Grade 8's and split washers a distant second choice.

And I guess for the gasket, the Milodon cork and black RTV seems like the option to try?
NO! not cork-Milodon #40405! It's composite. No Locktite RTV's- Ford Motorsport gray for diesel apps. $23 per tube.

One last question - is this going to be a PITA if the car is only up on jack stands and not a lift? Doesn't seem like it will, but then I'm the rookie, so comments are welcome.
Yes it's a PITA-like everything important you'll do on the car.

elmariachi · #12 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 06:29 PM

I have removed and replaced mine 4 times since May and they still leak at the rear. Now I have a separate issue from you in that I didn't countersink my rear main cap so that the rear main bolts could clear my Armando pan, so after modifying the pan its still seeping at the two rear pan bolts. But having progressed through Fel-Pro, black RTV, studs etc, I can say that at present, the combo I like is the $10 Fel-Pro black composite gaskets, the Motorcraft gray Chas mentioned (applied sparingly) that's a sweet $23 per shorty caulk tube, the Mr Gasket serrated bolts and not much torgue, maybe 10-15 ft lbs. This is on my list of things to tackle this winter.

Here is a helpful thread:Engine Builders-favorite oil pan sealing tips?

dcdoug · #13 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 07:03 PM

Chas,

Just to be clear, you are saying use the Milodon #40405. That's what I had meant. Thought it was cork. I had Grade 8's on there with split washers. Can you send me a link to the serrated bolts you are taking about. I couldn't find them on Summit.

Thanks!

ERA Chas · #14 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Chas,

Just to be clear, you are saying use the Milodon #40405. That's what I had meant. Thought it was cork. I had Grade 8's on there with split washers. Can you send me a link to the serrated bolts you are taking about. I couldn't find them on Summit.

Thanks!

Yes, 40405.

Can't right now but Jegs has them, not Summit!

dcdoug · #15 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Here is a helpful thread:Engine Builders-favorite oil pan sealing tips?

Thanks, this was helpful.

dcdoug · #16 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Yes, 40405.

Can't right now but Jegs has them, not Summit!

If you get a chance and could send me a link, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't find them on Jegs either for some reason. This is a next weekend project, so there is time - thanks!

dcdoug · #17 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Try one stud on each side, not at the back corner but one up from that towards the front of the car. Clean your pan and block where they touch with brake cleaner so it is clean as possible. Some people will tell you to use black RTV sparingly; I have a bead the entire way around on both the pan and windage tray. Torque the bolts in small increments going around so that it's even. Torque it to 10lbs; you can use a little LocTite blue, or glob a little RTV on the bolts if you'd like. The pan really needs to be clean and straight. I can't over-emphasize that.

Thanks, I hope my pan is still straight. If not, I will be coming back for straightening tips......

patrickt · #18 (**permalink**) 09-20-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Thanks, I hope my pan is still straight. If not, I will be coming back for straightening tips......

There are a million ways to put a pan on and have it not leak. But usually what does cause the leak is an unstraight pan (especially around the bolt holes) and dirt/crap/junk that prevents it all from making a nice seal.

dcdoug · #19 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 08:14 AM

This is probably a stupid question, but will the motorcraft sealant also function as a bit of an adhesive so I can attach the gasket to the pan to make installation easier? If not, what do you recommend?

dcdoug · #20 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

If you get a chance and could send me a link, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't find them on Jegs either for some reason. This is a next weekend project, so there is time - thanks!

Nevermind, I found the serrated pan bolts on Summit. The search just wasn't picking up the word "serrated" in the description - thanks!



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