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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2016, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by joyridin' View Post
Probably should have gone with a HP or Dominator system. Both work excellent on engines with a lot of mods and big cams.
The Terminator system is a HP if you connect a laptop. I gave up on the handheld after the first day.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2016, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by joyridin' View Post
Probably should have gone with a HP or Dominator system. Both work excellent on engines with a lot of mods and big cams.
Excellent?? I recall a thread on here where Vintage Motorsports our backdraft dealer ditched this system because it did not work. For everyone who says they love these self learners there are countless threads where 5 can't get them to work. One is the az cobra club on here stated he tried the fast ditched it because Bob Rhem efi expert could not get it to work with a big cam. He went back to a carb. It may work for some and not for others. Seems strange.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2016, 02:14 PM
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One thread on here titled. Breaking down efi options. Many complaints about the self learning systems. I can link the thread for some reason. A search easily finds it.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2016, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Texasdoc View Post
The Terminator system is a HP if you connect a laptop. I gave up on the handheld after the first day.
That doesn't seem to be the way they are listed on the Holley website. It looks like the HP is a different line than the Terminator line.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2016, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fordracing65 View Post
Excellent?? I recall a thread on here where Vintage Motorsports our backdraft dealer ditched this system because it did not work. For everyone who says they love these self learners there are countless threads where 5 can't get them to work. One is the az cobra club on here stated he tried the fast ditched it because Bob Rhem efi expert could not get it to work with a big cam. He went back to a carb. It may work for some and not for others. Seems strange.
Funny, yet I visit a site that is dedicated to LS engines and they are running 1400 hp twin turbo E85 engines with 11:1 CR, massive cams, 7500 redline etc..etc..etc..and that is all they run. And they drive them on the street. Heck, my factory EFI handles a cam with 250 dur @ .05 and well over .600" lift and it will run with the MAF sensor and in closed loop. My cam isn't even that radical.

I wouldn't rely on the self tuning to run on a daily basis, but it seems to work decent to get the car fired and put on a few miles so you can fine tune it.

Maybe people just don't do their research enough or think they can get by with a cheap system. The Dominator is definitely not cheap and it has a large learning curve, but it will do whatever you want it to do.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2016, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by joyridin' View Post
Funny, yet I visit a site that is dedicated to LS engines and they are running 1400 hp twin turbo E85 engines with 11:1 CR, massive cams, 7500 redline etc..etc..etc..and that is all they run. And they drive them on the street. Heck, my factory EFI handles a cam with 250 dur @ .05 and well over .600" lift and it will run with the MAF sensor and in closed loop. My cam isn't even that radical.

I wouldn't rely on the self tuning to run on a daily basis, but it seems to work decent to get the car fired and put on a few miles so you can fine tune it.

Maybe people just don't do their research enough or think they can get by with a cheap system. The Dominator is definitely not cheap and it has a large learning curve, but it will do whatever you want it to do.
The Holley self learning system won't support 1400hp. The Holley dominator is a multiport system. 2 totally different efi set ups. Lol
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2016, 10:19 PM
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I will say this. The Holley terminator sniper self learning efi I believe it's called looks awesome. You really can't tell it apart from a Holley carb. Side by side they are identical. I saw one in polished finish and was it looked spot on.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2016, 06:19 AM
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The Holley self learning system won't support 1400hp. The Holley dominator is a multiport system. 2 totally different efi set ups. Lol
I wasn't talking about a self learning system and neither was anybody else. You brought that up on your own. If you read the posts, nobody else is discussing it either. We are talking about EFI in general and making it run on an engine with a lot of modifications and how much time/work it takes to adjust and make it correct.

Reading comprehension is a plus! EFI systems work fine with huge cams and lots of mods if you spend the time to make it work correctly. Thousands of people are doing it daily.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tamanaco View Post
anyone installed FiTech efi system? Products

can be used as a standard suck thru or as a blow thru for turbo/blower car. clean looking installation...looking for any feedback.
The first post is asking about the Fitech efi which is a self learning system. What are you talking about.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by joyridin' View Post
I wasn't talking about a self learning system and neither was anybody else. You brought that up on your own. If you read the posts, nobody else is discussing it either. We are talking about EFI in general and making it run on an engine with a lot of modifications and how much time/work it takes to adjust and make it correct.

Reading comprehension is a plus! EFI systems work fine with huge cams and lots of mods if you spend the time to make it work correctly. Thousands of people are doing it daily.
Can you tell me what a Fitech efi system is. First post in this thread. Is it not a self learning system. Lol
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Old 06-04-2016, 12:18 PM
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Nope, but then again I replied to Texasdoc and his system, not the original poster stating maybe he had the wrong system for his application. The systems I stated are NOT self-learning. You do know that right since the self-learning does not lend itself well to certain applications?

Maybe you should just drop the discussion? You are starting to look a little foolish trying to take apples and make them into oranges. As I have stated a few times already, EFI systems and big cams/modifications work fine together. It is done by thousands of people every day. Do you have EFI on your car? Have you had EFI on your car and it didn't work? Have you ever installed EFI on a car you had and it didn't work? I have an EFI system, big cam, lots of mods, and it works quite well and it is still running in closed loop. Sorry if you aren't bright enough to get one working correctly. Oh..LOL
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2016, 12:41 PM
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Dude. You stated not one person on this thread was about a self learning system the first post was asking about a self learning system. I think you have it all wrong. Remember reading is comprehensive. I did not bring up self learning efi. The op did. Lay off the drugs.
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Old 06-04-2016, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joyridin' View Post
I wasn't talking about a self learning system and neither was anybody else. You brought that up on your own. If you read the posts, nobody else is discussing it either. We are talking about EFI in general and making it run on an engine with a lot of modifications and how much time/work it takes to adjust and make it correct.

Reading comprehension is a plus! EFI systems work fine with huge cams and lots of mods if you spend the time to make it work correctly. Thousands of people are doing it daily.
Right here you said it. Reread your post. I did not bring it up on my own the op did. Yes I know about efi and as I stated I'm not a fan of the self learning systems. That's what the op asked about. Lay off the drugs. I'm sorry you can't read.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamanaco View Post
anyone installed FiTech efi system? Products

can be used as a standard suck thru or as a blow thru for turbo/blower car. clean looking installation...looking for any feedback.
Joyriding reread the post. He asked about the Fitech SELF LEARNING SYTEM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2018, 08:43 PM
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Talking I have been using Big Stuff 3 for the last few years.

I have been using Big Stuff 3 (BS3) for the last few years. It works well, has good drivability, and makes really good power. My Turbocharged factory Five makes 924hp/ and 986wrtq on around 18 pounds of boost. BS3 also has great Data-Logging, when you plug up a laptop to the system. The car makes more power than you will ever need!!
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2018, 02:12 PM
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As long as you guys choose to go with EFI systems that essentially provide a carburetor to EFI conversion using what looks like the old carburetor, you are going to be working with a compromise at best. You should be using individual port injectors, a EFI specific manifold designed for dry operation and a suitable throttle body for the airflow your particular engine demands.

You have three fueling strategies available to you Alpha -N, Speed Density and MAF based in order of increasing sophistication. By far the most popular systems are speed density systems. MAF based systems are the most precise in matching fuel delivery to air flow. Alpha-N strategies are regularly incorporated into both the speed density and MAF based models.

Speed density systems ignore actual air flow and calculated an implied mass air flow from manifold pressure, throttle position and air temps. The MAF based systems precisely measure air flow with their MAF and calculate fuel demand based on injested air mass and engine load. MAF stuff works everywhere, Speed Density works well unless there are significant atmospheric changes or altitude changes.

The auto learning functions allow you to get "close" to the right tune but still require programming intervention to get it right everywhere, always, all the time. Buying low cost good enough systems usually are not either low cost nor good enough to get the job done correctly. If you have the skills then you can learn how to tune one if you don't, step back and buy the expertise form a reputable tuning shop familiar with your EFI choice.

In terms of bang for the buck you can not beat the manufactured Megasquirt MS3Pro-Ultimate systems from DIYAutoTune <= clickable. This particular EFI system is the equivalent of a Haltech or similar system costing 2-3x the price. Additionally the Megasquirt guys are among the very oldest of all the aftermarket EFI providers — their stuff has years of service and debugging work already done when you buy it. Did I mention they come with a lifetime warranty? Nice thing to have when something goes bump in the dark.

You can learn how to tune it but you can also go to a shop to buy the tuning skills for your install. Unlike most EFI systems that require you to buy 'their sensors' the Megasquirt guys allow calibrating the EFI system to work with any sensor you want to use — including the cheapo sensor form the local parts store (not recommended).

Don't use a wet flow manifold with a dry flow EFI system. Seems like it ought to work and it will but you will loose tunability especially when you start to hunt for ways to bolster the torque in some rpm ranges where you want more grunt. Buy a good aftermarket manifold that was designed as a dry flow manifold from the ground up. If there are no commercial alternatives available look for the older cross ram style individual runner manifolds (ideally with adjustable runner lengths) and weld injector bungs to them at the ports.

Remember the self learning systems are designed to get you running, probably work OK for a grocery getter but will fall short of the mark for a performance application. For performance applications you will need to actually tune your EFI system yourself or buy the service form a good shop.

If you go cheap (low quality not necessarily price) you will go back to the mat more than one time before you are done. Save yourself the headache of the looks like a carb but is really EFI alternatives. At best they are bad compromises, at worst they are useless headaches and a money pit waste of money.


Ed
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Last edited by eschaider; 10-09-2018 at 02:20 PM.. Reason: Spelling & Grammar
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaider View Post
As long as you guys choose to go with EFI systems that essentially provide a carburetor to EFI conversion using what looks like the old carburetor, you are going to be working with a compromise at best. You should be using individual port injectors, a EFI specific manifold designed for dry operation and a suitable throttle body for the airflow your particular engine demands.

You have three fueling strategies available to you Alpha -N, Speed Density and MAF based in order of increasing sophistication. By far the most popular systems are speed density systems. MAF based systems are the most precise in matching fuel delivery to air flow. Alpha-N strategies are regularly incorporated into both the speed density and MAF based models.

Speed density systems ignore actual air flow and calculated an implied mass air flow from manifold pressure, throttle position and air temps. The MAF based systems precisely measure air flow with their MAF and calculate fuel demand based on injested air mass and engine load. MAF stuff works everywhere, Speed Density works well unless there are significant atmospheric changes or altitude changes.

The auto learning functions allow you to get "close" to the right tune but still require programming intervention to get it right everywhere, always, all the time. Buying low cost good enough systems usually are not either low cost nor good enough to get the job done correctly. If you have the skills then you can learn how to tune one if you don't, step back and buy the expertise form a reputable tuning shop familiar with your EFI choice.

In terms of bang for the buck you can not beat the manufactured Megasquirt MS3Pro-Ultimate systems from DIYAutoTune <= clickable. This particular EFI system is the equivalent of a Haltech or similar system costing 2-3x the price. Additionally the Megasquirt guys are among the very oldest of all the aftermarket EFI providers their stuff has years of service and debugging work already done when you buy it. Did I mention they come with a lifetime warranty? Nice thing to have when something goes bump in the dark.

You can learn how to tune it but you can also go to a shop to buy the tuning skills for your install. Unlike most EFI systems that require you to buy 'their sensors' the Megasquirt guys allow calibrating the EFI system to work with any sensor you want to use including the cheapo sensor form the local parts store (not recommended).

Don't use a wet flow manifold with a dry flow EFI system. Seems like it ought to work and it will but you will loose tunability especially when you start to hunt for ways to bolster the torque in some rpm ranges where you want more grunt. Buy a good aftermarket manifold that was designed as a dry flow manifold from the ground up. If there are no commercial alternatives available look for the older cross ram style individual runner manifolds (ideally with adjustable runner lengths) and weld injector bungs to them at the ports.

Remember the self learning systems are designed to get you running, probably work OK for a grocery getter but will fall short of the mark for a performance application. For performance applications you will need to actually tune your EFI system yourself or buy the service form a good shop.

If you go cheap (low quality not necessarily price) you will go back to the mat more than one time before you are done. Save yourself the headache of the looks like a carb but is really EFI alternatives. At best they are bad compromises, at worst they are useless headaches and a money pit waste of money.


Ed

Here's what I got when I tried to access the link you posted:


Website blocked due
to trojan



We strongly recommend you do not visit this site.


Website blocked: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...gement-system/
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
Here's what I got when I tried to access the link you posted:


Website blocked due
to trojan



We strongly recommend you do not visit this site.


Website blocked: https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...gement-system/

Thanks for the heads up cycleguy.

I've just visited the site to check with Opera, Firefox and Safari without warning of the trojan virus. Has anybody else had the virus warning popup when you visited?

Thx,

Ed
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:15 PM
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Link works fine for me.
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:34 PM
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Has anybody used Edelbrock Pro Flow 4 system? If so, what were the results positive and negative.
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