Give up a 991 GT3 for a Superformance GT40?

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by MHNCO

Please share the suspension setup on an original spec chassis and explain how it differs from the FGT and is designed for bias ply tires. The numbers I've seen for torsional rigidity showed a ~30% increase for the FGT but given it weighs 1500lbs more, it's probably is a wash given the forces in play.

Your experience on the track is anecdotal at best. There are a couple guys on the GT40 site who have their cars setup for track that state they are running with GT3's all day long. I would guess brakes would be the limiting factor given the size difference.

Can you describe the GT40s you lap at Willow because I would love to hear their side of that story. Given the limited number that run there it should not be too hard to figure out who they are on the GT40 site.

If you want a soft seats, A/C, cup holders, satnav, and a nice stereo for your lady gaga tracks, then a modern sports car is the ticket. If you want a no compromises, visceral race car experience that will leave you exhausted, sweating hot, deaf, and your eyeballs rattled, then there are few options better than a GT40. I would not trade mine for my old Ford GT in this lifetime and I liked my FGT a lot.

http://p2161.com/images/lowered-after.jpg

I doubt that anything I say will sway your opinion so I won't try. First of all my Ford GT was modified with aero improvements, a 4.0 liter whipple, Penske's, increased spring rates, larger wheels etc etc. It made 862 hp at the rear tires so not nearly a fair fight. I was radar gunned at 174 mph on the fairly short front straight at Willow. I doubt any of your replica buddies would even reach 150 there. My point was regarding the 991 GT3 it is very different than earlier mdls and much faster, are your friends beating 991 GT3's?

You want to talk visceral? My Cobra weighs 2370 pounds and has 850 normally aspirated FW horsepower and 632 LB/Ft. The suspension has been changed to eliminate 1960's design problems like scrub radius, camber gain
toe steer, rack speed, antidive geometry etc. It has 18" wheels and 315x18" front tires with 335x18 rears the engine is chipped at 8200 rpm. This car will get out of shape with imprudent throttle application well above 100 mph. I believe it is far more challenging to drive than any replica GT40 so I know what visceral means. The original question was would you trade a 991 GT3 for a replica GT40. My answer was no because the GT3 will do everything
better with greater reliability. If you want to subject yourself to all the
BS that goes with a 1960's car great, that is a personal choice. If you are used to a current modern car (991) you might be disappointed with a replica of a 1960's car. The financial implications are also significant as mentioned by others.
I still own all three cars so drive and compare them quite regularly.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsQoE1T-aNs[/ame]

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

I doubt that anything I say will sway your opinion so I won't try. First of all my Ford GT was modified with aero improvements, a 4.0 liter whipple, Penske's, increased spring rates, larger wheels etc etc. It made 862 hp at the rear tires so not nearly a fair fight. I was radar gunned at 174 mph on the fairly short front straight at Willow. I doubt any of your replica buddies would even reach 150 there. My point was regarding the 991 GT3 it is very different than earlier mdls and much faster, are your friends beating 991 GT3's?

You want to talk visceral? My Cobra weighs 2370 pounds and has 850 normally aspirated FW horsepower and 632 LB/Ft. The suspension has been changed to eliminate 1960's design problems like scrub radius, camber gain
toe steer, rack speed, antidive geometry etc. It has 18" wheels and 315x18" front tires with 335x18 rears the engine is chipped at 8200 rpm. This car will get out of shape with imprudent throttle application well above 100 mph. I believe it is far more challenging to drive than any replica GT40 so I know what visceral means. The original question was would you trade a 991 GT3 for a replica GT40. My answer was no because the GT3 will do everything
better with greater reliability. If you want to subject yourself to all the
BS that goes with a 1960's car great, that is a personal choice. If you are used to a current modern car (991) you might be disappointed with a replica of a 1960's car. The financial implications are also significant as mentioned by others.
I still own all three cars so drive and compare them quite regularly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsQoE1T-aNs

You are correct that the GT3 will do everything as well or better than the GT40 will and with less input/drama/noise, etc. But that is exactly the point of the GT40, we WANT the "60s" feel and experience!

I would think that for pure track use there are even better choices than the Porsche but that really is not the question; it is not "what is the best track day car?" but rather "do I want the 1960's experience?"

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

You are correct that the GT3 will do everything as well or better than the GT40 will and with less input/drama/noise, etc. But that is exactly the point of the GT40, we WANT the "60s" feel and experience!

I would think that for pure track use there are even better choices than the Porsche but that really is not the question; it is not "what is the best track day car?" but rather "do I want the 1960's experience?"

I was under the impression that it would be a combination car, if track day only there are dozens of better choices than a GT3. Radical SR8 would be a great choice for a very fast two seater 6min 58 seconds at Nuremberg ring. The general opinion seems to be that the 991 GT3 is a posh comfortable car, believe me it is not. It rides rougher than my Cobra on race tires, it scrapes on any driveway with a modest slope, it is barely legal for exhaust noise and the multidisk clutch clanks and clunks at idle like a race car. Again no argument from me if you want the 60's experience but if not, GT3 is the better choice.

[Bernica]

The original GT40's weren't without their issues to be sure. But today, technology has come a long ways! Love dem brakes!!!

Listen To Carroll Shelby's Concerns About The Burning Brakes Of The Ford GT40s At Le Mans

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Bernica

The original GT40's weren't without their issues to be sure. But today, technology has come a long ways! Love dem brakes!!!

Listen To Carroll Shelby's Concerns About The Burning Brakes Of The Ford GT40s At Le Mans

The same Carroll Shelby who says on video that the GT40s "weighed 4000 pounds!" It seems his memory got a dash of his snake oil in the later years.

[MHNCO]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

I doubt that anything I say will sway your opinion so I won't try... my Ford GT was modified with aero improvements... made 862 hp at the rear tires... was radar gunned at 174 mph on the fairly short front straight at Willow...

Seems like trying to me lol. That's pretty awesome and I'm sure your near the leader of the pack at your local track day. I still want to understand your suspension settings. You do realize the GT40 suspension is completely adjustable yes? Doesn't seem like you know much about the GT40... par for the course for most FGT owners.

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

The financial implications are also significant as mentioned by others.

Oh BS. My GT40 four years into ownership is worth more today by a wide margin than what I bought it for in 2012. I don't dislike modern 911s but to say they are bluechip investments is silly.

Asking others what sort of car you should desire seems no different than asking if you should prefer blondes or brunettes. If you don't already know then...

Some people like fart cans on the back if their V-Tec Yo!

Some like ridiculous Fast & Furious wings and bragadocious but unusable HP...

For me it's 450hp of slip sliding bias ply GT40. I was fortunate enough to attend and it was awesome

PS 3 of them were SPF cars

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpmtKrUkjZ8[/ame]

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by MHNCO

Seems like trying to me lol. That's pretty awesome and I'm sure your near the leader of the pack at your local track day. I still want to understand your suspension settings. You do realize the GT40 suspension is completely adjustable yes? Doesn't seem like you know much about the GT40... par for the course for most FGT owners.

Oh BS. My GT40 four years into ownership is worth more today by a wide margin than what I bought it for in 2012. I don't dislike modern 911s but to say they are bluechip investments is silly.

Asking others what sort of car you should desire seems no different than asking if you should prefer blondes or brunettes. If you don't already know then...

Some people like fart cans on the back if their V-Tec Yo!

Some like ridiculous Fast & Furious wings and bragadocious but unusable HP...

For me it's 450hp of slip sliding bias ply GT40. I was fortunate enough to attend and it was awesome

PS 3 of them were SPF cars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpmtKrUkjZ8

I'll leave this one to 3170

[peterpjb]

Originally Posted by MHNCO

.....I don't dislike modern 911s but to say they are bluechip investments is silly.

you can be sure that nearly every tiny 911, with low amount on the speedo, raises his worth, and the special series like turbo, turbo-s, gt3, gt3rs, rs, r, classic, anniversary, etc. sooner and higher

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by MHNCO

Oh BS. My GT40 four years into ownership is worth more today by a wide margin than what I bought it for in 2012. I don't dislike modern 911s but to say they are bluechip investments is silly.

Actually, you're wrong. And must not have any knowledge of the 911 market. Even my NB (narrow body, non-Turbo) 993 has doubled in value since my purchase. And then when you start considering Speedsters, Turbos, GT3's, RS's, Paint-To-Sample, Jelly Bean colors, etc., produced in the last 5-10-20-30 years, some of these 911's have doubled, tripled and quadrupled in value.

Heck, even my Kirkham, purchased in 2007, has increased in value. But it by no means is a blue chip investment or an investment at all.