Can't get the engine to fire................Help, please.....

[EarlsflyinCobra]

I am still trying to get an engine start and have been for 9 "LONG" months now.....

Here is the scenario.......

Ford 1989 5.0 motor.......MSD distributor (direct replacement for the stock Ford unit).....Crane coil.....Crane Hi-6 ignition box.....Miceotech LT10 ECU.

I have checked, double checked, and triple checked "ALL" of the wiring using the Microtech, Crane-hi6, and several troubleshooting wiring diagrams that are applicable, and have it just as the diagrams indicate.

The LT-10 self test mode fires the injectors and indicates no problems. The relevant lights on the LT-10 are Green and Amber, which are supposed to light upon power and the amber is supposed to indicate pulse ( I assume by blinking) during cranking. They both come on when power is applied but "GO OUT" while cranking.

The Hi-6 "RED" light comes on when the ignition is turned on, and blinks briefly as the igntion is turned off. According to the instructions it is supposed to blink while cranking, indicating it is receiving a trigger signal. It goes out during cranking. Also, according to the instructions, it can indicate different codes for troubleshooting, however none of the codes are displayed.

The coil sparks when the ignition is first turned on and sparks, with a beep, once or twice when the ignition is turned off.

I have called the shop where I bought the LT-10, several times, and the tech has not been very helpful on the phone. He wants me to trailer the car the 60 miles over to his shop so he can try and figure it out. He was supposed to come to me, twice in December, but was a no show both times.

I was given the name of a tech at a shop in Miami and called several times to talk to him, but he has always been too busy to talk and has not called back as promised.

Does anyone here have any ideas as to what the problem might be??

Thanks in advance for any information.

[trularin]

The three Fs.

Fuel
Fire
Function

Check each one.

In the most basic form, the coil will release a spark if the negative side is grounded for a moment. There must be at least 8v at the positive side. Fuel should be seen if the throttle is pulled back and the rotor should turn of the crank turns.

I do not want you to think I am making trivia of your problem, but sometimes the simplest of things are the reasons for challenges such as these.

Can you perform a process of elimination? Remove things or bypass things to make it as simple as possible?

[bobcowan]

remove the crane box. it wouldn't surprise me if it started right up.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Is it possible for it to start without the Crane box???????

[Rick Parker]

EARL: I would be willing to bet you do not have the ignition attached to a Hot 12V switched point on the ignition switch when it is in the crank position. Check the wires coming from your ignition switch. It must get power when in the "Crank/Start" position and in the "Run" position.

[xlr8or]

Yep. what Rick said. Sounds like one of the pieces to your puzzle is losing power in the start position.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

EARL: I would be willing to bet you do not have the ignition attached to a Hot 12V switched point on the ignition switch when it is in the crank position. Check the wires coming from your ignition switch. It must get power when in the "Crank/Start" position and in the "Run" position.

I'll back you on your bet Rick.

Certainly sounds like the run position has no power while the switch is in the crank position.

Easy enough to check, disconnect the solenoid wire, put the switch in the crank position and check if 12 volts still present on the "run" wiring.
This sort of test should be done prior to firing any new engine for the first time.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Well, I checked what I had already checked and then checked again to make sure my check was checked and then I even took the Crane Hi 6 (digital)box out and replaced it with a MSD 6AL (analog)box, but still no crankine

[OCCOBRA]

Could your rotor phasing be out 180 deg? Could you be falling below eight volts during cranking? If so the Crane/MSD may not be sending a voltage to the coil. That is certainly the case with an MSD. (been there).
You said the injectors are firing. Electrically or have you checked that fuel actually emits from the injector? Could be no fuel. Can you smell fuel at the tail pipe?

[Dangerous Doug]

First firing of my 302 was just not happening. Checked EVERYTHING over and over, no fire. As I tinkered and continued to crank, the battery got weaker and weaker, as evidenced by the slowing starter cranking.

Then, I put a pair of jumper cables on it so I could keep cranking and working.

It fired right up!!!

Tim Brown caught all this on video...

Battery was brand new, but weak. Turns out (I figured this out months later) the battery had a bad cell.

Perhaps your system is not getting the proper voltage. Hope you benefit from my folly.

DD

[Rick Parker]

It sounds over simplified but you must determine if it is Fuel or Spark deficient. Start by pulling some plugs After cranking several seconds; are they wet?? If so go that would indicate the injectors are functioning. Next go to the Ignition system; lay a plug with wire attached on a grounded surface such as the manifold, crank the engine and watch the spark plug gap. Is the coil (assumed good??) compatable with the spark box being used (Crane/MSD). The incorrect phasing of the rotor wil NOT prevent it from firing the plugs. It may not start or it may run poorly but it will trigger the spark box as long as it is spinning.
Where are you pulling the switched 12 volts from? This is the source for the small red wire on the MSD box, not to be confused with the heavy Red & Black wires that actually powers the MSD. It has to be HOT with 12 volts while cranking and in the run position. Without that you are dead in the water.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

the battery got weaker and weaker

I have been keeping the battery on a trickle charger and have been trying to keep an eye on it as I go.

The coil sparks when the ignition is first turned on and sparks, with a beep coming from the distributor, once or twice when the ignition is turned off.

Fuel was a problem as I had a regulator that would only put out 7 psi, I have since changed it and now have 45 psi.

The plugs are not sparking.

I'm going to double check

Where are you pulling the switched 12 volts from? This is the source for the small red wire on the MSD box, not to be confused with the heavy Red & Black wires that actually powers the MSD. It has to be HOT with 12 volts while cranking and in the run position. Without that you are dead in the water.

and see exactly where this is routed to tonight when I get home. I think I have checked this but now am second guessing myself

[jhv48]

Now I remember why I run a carburetor!

I know, I know, not helping!

[EarlsflyinCobra]

ONE DAMN WIRE.....AAAAAARRRRRRR
GGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH
HHHHHHH

Not the one suspected but one just as important

http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/u...01515_ORIG.flv

[Rick Parker]

Soooooooo we have lift off?

Just send cash...........

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Well, to let everyone know.....it was the power wire for the Microtech computer.....it was routed to the accessory side of the ignition switch....after being told to make sure the little red wire on the MSD went to the ignition side and not the accessory side, and after checking and making sure it did.......a LIGHT bulb turned on in my brain and I decided to check the power wire for the computer.....and Lo and Behold, it was the CULPRIT.....only took 9 months to figure it out....LOL....but, during that time I fixed several other minor problems that cropped up.......


Follow up......I had wired the MSD box in before the start......I took it out and wired the Crane box back in.....and it still STARTS..........WHOOOOOOOOPEEEE

[EarlsflyinCobra]

After a little tuning..................

http://s660.photobucket.com/albums/u...10350_ORIG.flv

[lovehamr]

Way to go Earl!