Need Help, no spark

RestoCreations · #1 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 02:29 PM

Ok, i am at a loss on this one.

My car was running fine, or pretty well with a mallory distributor that i had installed while my MSD 8594 pro billet distributor was off for repair. The mechanical advance had been hanging up and that is why i sent it back to MSD.
My MSD distributor came back from repair and i removed the mallory and installed the repaired msd unit. The car would not start. So, i checked to make sure spark was coming out of the coil wire by shorting the violet and green wires as per the MSD instructions. I assumed that meant the magnetic pick up was bad, so i replaced it today. Well, no fire still.

-Grounds are good
-I have tried a new magnetic pick ups with no luck
-I have tried the mallory distributor with no luck
-I have tested the box for spark and it is producing spark.

Any thoughts? I think something has gone wrong inside the box and it is not sending out the right signal. In the past, i had a lot of trouble with the engine having way too much advance at start up, enough to make it ping. I thought this was just due to the advance function hanging up, but it also did it with the mallory distributor. I turned on the retard function by switching the selector to 6, which should retard the timing 20 degrees at start up, but it did not work.
Thanks

Rick Parker · #2 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 03:04 PM

If it is a Optical type with a shutter wheel and LED it may not be wired correctly, otherwise I woould say the Module is bad.

FWB · #3 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

Ok, i am at a loss on this one.

My car was running fine, or pretty well with a mallory distributor that i had installed while my MSD 8594 pro billet distributor was off for repair. The mechanical advance had been hanging up and that is why i sent it back to MSD.
My MSD distributor came back from repair and i removed the mallory and installed the repaired msd unit. The car would not start. So, i checked to make sure spark was coming out of the coil wire by shorting the violet and green wires as per the MSD instructions. I assumed that meant the magnetic pick up was bad, so i replaced it today. Well, no fire still.

-Grounds are good
-I have tried a new magnetic pick ups with no luck
-I have tried the mallory distributor with no luck
-I have tested the box for spark and it is producing spark.

Any thoughts? I think something has gone wrong inside the box and it is not sending out the right signal. In the past, i had a lot of trouble with the engine having way too much advance at start up, enough to make it ping. I thought this was just due to the advance function hanging up, but it also did it with the mallory distributor. I turned on the retard function by switching the selector to 6, which should retard the timing 20 degrees at start up, but it did not work.
Thanks

doesn't the mallory use an external ballast resistor? did you remove that from the wiring before trying the MSD?

and when you put the mallory back in did you give it any voltage without the resistor in place?

what MSD box do you use? is it a 7?

RestoCreations · #4 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 03:37 PM

I have the MSD distributor with the Digitial 6 box. I bought the Mallory, which is identical to the MSD with the exception of how the advance is adjusted, as a replacement because the MSD mechanical linkage was hanging up. The mallory is the same as the MSD. The car ran with both. However, once i recieved the MSD distributor back from repair and installed it, i had no power. So i figured it was the pickup module since the box had spark. BUT, now neither distributors work. Not to mention, i just put a Brand New magnetic pickup in the MSD today and the results are the same.
I think the box is screwed up.

FWB · #5 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 03:40 PM

not to knock your methods.....but how are you determining there is no spark. if its just because it won't start with the timing 20 deg retard...that may be an issue

FWB · #6 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 03:42 PM

i would start over, run the box straight up timing, pull the dizzy and make sure the motor is at TDC and re-install the dizzy. recheck the box's ground and go from there, be sure the battery is putting out what its supposed to or it could keep it from starting, MSD is a power hog

RestoCreations · #7 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWB

not to knock your methods.....but how are you determining there is no spark. if its just because it won't start with the timing 20 deg retard...that may be an issue

There is spark to the coil wire. There is no spark to the plugs, as detected by installing a spark tester, which has a bulb that lights up when spark is present. I have also installed a plug and grounded it to see if spark is present at the plug. Still no spark.

The timing is no longer retarded 20 degrees at start up. That was something i tried initially, as it was an option on the box and the car was knocking at start up. That setting had no effect when i tried to activate it. I left it in that mode for several weeks, but finally set it back to the normal setting. I probably should not have even brought it up because it just added a level of confusion, but it seemed somewhat pertinent since it did not appear to function.

BTW, the distributor is set at TDC. Trust me, it is not a simple issues such as that. Fuel pressure is good, battery charge is good, Plug wires are correct, grounds are excellent and i even added more just to see, etc and so on. There is obviously no way to check the box to see if it is defective, so that is what i am going with. I think the mode for selecting 4-6-8 cylinders etc. is screwed.

patrickt · #8 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

There is spark to the coil wire. There is no spark to the plugs,

If I am reading this right, and when you pull the coil wire out from the middle of the distributor cap and hold it close to the block and crank the engine and you see a spark, and then you plug it back in the cap and take a wire off a plug and do the same thing and see NO spark, then the problem is the rotor and or ball at the top of the distributor cap that touches the rotor. Replace the cap and rotor and bend the rotor prong up to make a nice contact on the little ball.

Rick Parker · #9 (**permalink**) 02-17-2012, 07:37 PM

Resto: Begin by doing this MSD Ignition

Do you then have spark? If so you box is good. Move on to the distributor. Pay close attention to the phasing IE: the colors of the wires from the distributor to those that connect to the MSD Box. Look at them carefully. In the MSD distributor check the gap between the Blue field coil and the blades on the Reluctor, set at .025-.030. Use a business card or matchbook cover in lieu of metal blade to set this dimension. The function of the distributor is pretty fool proof.

Gaz64 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-18-2012, 12:31 AM

Do you have 12 volts on the small red wire to the MSD in both crank and run positions of the ignition switch?

RICK LAKE · #11 (**permalink**) 02-18-2012, 03:24 AM

RestoCreations I never ran one but know people who had alot of problems with the EARLY digital 6 boxes. On the spark test you want to crank it and see a storng spark and a couple of good sparks. If you see one spark only you could have a problem inside the box. Do you guys have a good 6A or 6AL box around? swap over and retest. I am going with the fact that you phazered the distributor back in the motor. If you just had repair work done on the billet distributor, I would call MSD and ask them what happened?? Sent in for an weight sticking issue and comes back witout any spark??? I don't think it's an opitics problem. Been running an MSD for 15 years and no problem and trucked the car over 50K miles in open and now enclosed trailer through rain and snow. I have gone through caps and rotors. Use other distrib and call MSD tech. Be nice to start and if get no help, then get grumpy to a point. Rick L.

RestoCreations · #12 (**permalink**) 02-18-2012, 10:09 AM

Attached a ground to the distributor and then to the chassis and it started. It is running terrible and adjustment to the timing is not making any changes, but at least i have spark now. I wish i had more time to fool with it today, but unfortunately i have other obligations. My engine has massive grounds on it that i made from welding cable. Why this would suddenly be a issue has me stumped, but apparently the ground was the problem, or at least i think. Why it is running like total crap is another question and i think i may still be facing some problems with the box.