An optional "classic style" JBL body?

[Ogwasnowski]

Hi

I was wondering how many JBL roadsters are in existence finished or unfinished.

Based upon some of Richard's past posts, I fully realize his initial design goal for the JBL competition roadster as well as his passion for developing it along those lines; however, I strongly believe that its unique body styling is alienating it from the majority of potential Cobra buyers, myself included.

Please don't get me wrong. I do auto styling as a hobby, and consequently would be one of the first to respect another's personal art form. It just seems such a shame that many are passing up the opportunity to own the BEST semi-monocoque steel chassis that I have ever laid eyes upon, simply because the aesthetics of the roadster's body didn't appeal to them.

Again, I understand that the JBL roadster was never intended to be marketed as a "Cobra replica;" however, the reality is that the bulk of JBL's potential customers ARE people looking for a Cobra replica, or at least something fairly close. Strictly from a business/profit perspective has JBL ever considered offering an optional "classic style" body? If not, would it even be considered?

Derek

[Excaliber]

I would think JBL makes so very FEW replicas all ready it would be counter productive to change their "game plan". Richard has commented they make about 15 cars a year and that this is NOT their primary business by a long shot. They have an interesting "niche" in the over all market, they are what they are.

But I have no "inside" information, perhaps I am wrong. Consider my opinion little more than "speculation"!

Ernie

[Richard Hudgins]

Hi Derek,

I seriously doubt that there will be any effort to match the original body shape from the 427 body.

However, below please compare the Shelby 4000 series and the JBL profiles.





Also, please look at ERA's comparison page of various manufacturers. car profiles

It seems to me that the cars are all over the lot as far as shape goes.

I guess that the photos on the ERA site just prove that everyone has a different opinion on what is a "correct" or "Classic" body style.

The JBL is different from the pack, and I feel that the car is best described in the words of Jessica Rabbit.

" I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way."

[Ogwasnowski]

Hi Richard,

In all fairness I must concur with your view that everyone has a different opinion on what is a "correct" or "classic" body style. In fact, ironically, I must admit that after reviewing all of the different profile examples on ERA's site, I didn't like any of them. For whatever it's worth, I happen to be partial to styling that falls somewhere between the now defunct Johnex and Excalibur.

Out of curiosity I posted a poll to determine if JBL's current roadster styling is hurting its sales. Although this poll disregards price discrepancies between the different manufacturers, the results should be interesting.

I was wondering, if in the future a third party (maybe me) was willing to develop a classic style body for your current chassis would JBL be open to the idea and be willing to work with them to that end? If so, I would like to post an example of what I had in mind.

Derek

[Richard Hudgins]

Hi Derek,

Anyone can rebody the JBL chassis any way that they may like.

If you develop a body that everyone loves, JBL would certainly sell chassis without a body and then they could fit your body.

JBL is in the chassis business. Not the body business.

If you recall, rebodies of chassis used to be a big business.

It was called custom coachwork in the old days.

That is how Aston Martin got in the car business.

[Buzz]

Johnex cars have a pretty true to original body shape. Excaliburs are radically altered. If you lean in that direction, you may end up with something no more "authentic" looking than what JBL already has. It sounds like an interesting idea, though. Why not post some sketches superimposed on pics of JBL's chassis so we can see how it looks?

[decooney]

When we were over a JMarsey's place, we discussed changing the rear wheel-well openings and adding different flares to his JBL. I believe its on his list of To Do's for the car.

Personally, I like the JBL because it is quite different than my ERA or anything else out there. The base platform is there... It would be fairly easy for a good glassworker to personalize it a bit - if thats what you wanted...

[mr bruce]

I have one of my Daytona Coupe bodys mounted on a JBL frame. Anybody want to see a picture?

[jmarsey]

Derek,

The JBL body really is a non issue. If the body style is keeping you from buying a JBL, then you really don't understand what a JBL is my friend. But if you were to debate this topic of “style”, I would have to say, as someone with a background in design, that the body is quite correct in its formalities. Very simply, the body "style" lets the viewer know there is something very tweaky going on here. There is something very different about this particular "cobra." To make the body style more authentic would not be as correct in terms of the cars ideology, if you will. One of the things that attracted me to the JBL, and I find totally refreshing, is the fact that this car breaks all the "classic" rules. I don't have to play the "authentic" game. I'm not hung up on "what is correct." So, I can just keep on tweaking away. A "classic style JBL" I believe is an oxymoron. But I have to say, Richard's comparison photos show just how classic the JBL body already is.

One does not buy a JBL based on its body style, I wouldn’t think. It is more like; the body represents the nature of the beast... one man’s twisted and demented variation on an old theme.

I’m really surprised they let JBL’ers participate on this forum. If they only knew.

John

[jmarsey]

Originally posted by mr bruce


I have one of my Daytona Coupe bodys mounted on a JBL frame. Anybody want to see a picture?

Yes! I've been wanting to see the coupe body since Dave first spoke of the notion. As long as Richard has no objections that is.

John

[Richard Hudgins]

Dearest John,

You have said it better than I could have ever said it myself.


Also John, You have given the me best complement that I have had in many years.

"one man’s twisted and demented variation on an old theme"

Thanks John.

You get it.

Most do not.

[Ogwasnowski]

Hi folks,

John wrote: The JBL body really is a non issue.

It maybe a non issue to you, but not to me.


J: If the body style is keeping you from buying a JBL, then you really don't understand what a JBL is my friend.

But I do understand...maybe not totally from a philosophical point of view, but certainly from a technological one...it's an awesome machine, plain and simple! From the day I first laid eyes on the chassis itself I knew I had to have it! The problem is that I just can't bring myself to live with the body lines.


J: ...There is something very different about this particular "cobra." To make the body style more authentic would not be as correct in terms of the cars ideology, if you will. One of the things that attracted me to the JBL, and I find totally refreshing, is the fact that this car breaks all the "classic" rules. I don't have to play the "authentic" game. I'm not hung up on "what is correct."

Believe it or not, I'm not hung up on authenticity either. In fact, I don't even think the original Cobra is all that great looking. To me the proportions are all wrong. Of course I have the same problem with the JBL. To me though, the original comes closer to my personal taste than does the JBL...hence this thread.

Obviously car body design is an art, and as such is quite subjective. Who am I, or any one else for that matter to criticize someone elses art. All we can say is that a particular work is not appealing to us personally.

I totally respect Richard's efforts to break away from the traditionalists; I just wish he had done it differently. On that note I have added a profile pic of the body that I would like to eventually develop and mount on the JBL chassis. I'm quite happy to hear Richard state that JBL is open to such third party endeavors.

Thanks guys for putting up with my stylistic objections.

Derek

[decooney]

Og,
Keep in mind that a JBL is wider and longer than most other Cobra replica bodies... so you'd probably end up just about having to destroy any other body to make it work, if at all.

If I had a JBL, the standard body would just get some minor and personal tweaks (continuing to go way outside of the box) to the flares, etc. By the time I was done it would look that much wider and menacing; and its truly awesome today as-is. To me however, the stock body is actually a very small part of what is going on underneath.

Have you actually seen a JBL in person yet? If so, where? If not, you might want to check one out to better understand why its different. It just screams "Here I Am, Oh Yeah...., Let's Go!".

[Ogwasnowski]

Duane,

The body I designed and posted here is something I plan to create from the ground up in a CAID app (probably Unigraphics - Shape Studio). I'll then have a plug CNC machined out of high density foam (possibly polyurethane). Once that has been hand finished I may or may not attempt the mold construction myself; I'll just have to cross that bridge when I get to it. In any case, my design currently comes within .5" of the JBL's wheelbase and can easily accommodate its front and rear width dimensions. In fact, I happen to like my Cobras long and wide, so that part works out just fine for me.

To answer your question, "no," I haven't actually seen a JBL in person yet, but I do totally agree that the stock body is actually a very small part of what is going on underneath; however, its a very large part of what is going on on the surface, and no matter how awesome the innards are (and they truly are) it is the surface that I have to look at every day. I think most of us have had, at one time or another, the pleasure of beholding what we felt was a fantastic work of automotive art...something that stirred our soul in a very special way. Not only because it looked good on the surface, but because we knew that beneath that gorgeous body lurked a raw mechanical beauty that complemented its exterior in a very unique manner. Simply put, "it's a package deal."

As I mentioned in a previous post, I do auto styling as a hobby, and as a stylist, when it comes to the appearance of my own personal ride(s), it must appeal to me in a very special way. Yea sure, I could use the stock JBL body and always try and console myself by reminding myself of the immense mechanical beauty that lies beneath that awkward shape, but you know, it would always eat away at me, and I would never be truly happy with it. In its current form the JBL roadster is by no means an "ugly" car, it just doesn't "do it" for me personally....and "doing it" is to me what owning and driving an exotic, high performance automobile is all about!

Derek

[computerworks]

Originally posted by mr bruce


I have one of my Daytona Coupe bodys mounted on a JBL frame. Anybody want to see a picture?

Mr. Bruce Coupe on JBL running gear..

[Richard Hudgins]

Hi Derek,

From your drawing and statements it is obvious that you have a different philosophy than mine as to design. (Which is a good thing.)

For me, form follows function.

The JBL body was an exercise in packaging design rather than an aesthetic based design.

The design goals were: (In order of importance.)

1. Control underbody flow.
2. Attempt to re-attach flow from the mid section aft.
3. Minimize package frontal area.
4. Reduce body CG height as much as possible.
5. Capture the “essence” of the roadster style.

Oddly, the design did accomplish these goals.

(Please note: the design calls for a race windscreen and not the standard Cobra unit.)

But others may wish a design based on aesthetics’. Therefore, they may prefer your body to the original JBL body.

Good luck. JBL will certainly supply chassis's to you with bespoke mounting points to accommodate your design.

[Ogwasnowski]

Richard - Yes indeed; given the fact that my designs are primarily intended for the street and not the track, I have always strived to achieve a fairly equal balance between form and function...only severely compromising form for function when absolutely necessary. However, if I ever found myself in need of a race vehicle that captured the stylistic "essence" of a traditional Cobra, your body design would be my first choice, no question about it!

Interestingly, although there have only been 12 votes so far in my "JBL classic body poll," 7 of those indicate that they would choose a JBL roller chassis over "ALL" other available comparably priced rollers "IF" it came with a classic style body. Obviously serious conclusions can't be drawn until we have substantially more votes in, but the initial results seem to indicate that there is a serious market for the classic body/JBL chassis package that I have in mind.

Here's the link to the poll incase anyone is interested: A "classic" style body for the JBL roadster

Again, I'm very happy to see that JBL would be more than willing to work with me on such a project, as it seems like it would be a win/win proposition for everyone involved, including the customers. When/if I decide to embark on such an endeavor I'll certainly let you know. You seem like real nice fellow, and I'd like to thank you for considering my ideas with an open mind.

In my original post I had inquired as to how many JBL vehicles were in existence (both finished and unfinished), but I don't recall anyone ever answering that question. Do you have a rough estimate available?

Derek

[fordracer]

Sorry to be a little late on this discussion....

Number one, I think most people here are getting too caught up in "the look." All these cars are FAKE. They have the idea,look,sound,but not the soul.

Remember the one true Cobra was a purpose built machine. Read some of the road test from the day. I believe a few of the descriptions were something like aluminium tightly drawn over its mechanicals. Me,personally find the JBL a sexy car. It has the purposeful look of the original and maybe a tad bit of the soul.

I think the replica community needs to get over itself and acknowledge that JBL has built a 21st century edition of the greatest car ever made. If Mr. Shelby had the technology the JBL is what he would have built, I'll bet you a Coke.....

[jmarsey]

Soul? Was that an option? I knew I forgot something!

[turnpike boy]

Ah, FordRacer.......

You need to get one of these fakes. Pretty much doesn't matter what make; any will do, provided you pick one without cup holders and seat heaters. In fact, the less options (no heaters, radios, etc.) the better - closer to the originals, and will provide you with a better experience.

To state they have no soul is.....wrong. They do, and can show you very well that - although perhaps not the same as an original - they embrace their own persona and are remarkably capable on their own.

I was in an original in 1967; a small block car. I remember it, admittedly with a heavy cloud of awe - having my own fake now, also small block powered, reminds me of that ride every time I turn the key. I have a good friend who owns a JBL and that car provides an intensity all its' own.

Keep the faith - fakes they may well be, but their fidelity to an original is much, much closer than you think.....and to say they are soulless is simply not true.