Head and porting question for Keith

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

Keith, I am in the process of building a new FE engine for the street. The engine will be installed in my AC428 when completed and be matched to a Toploader. Rear end ratio will be 3.08 or longer. I bought a 1968 HL 427 Side Oiler block which will be bored .17 over. Billet 3.98 crank with Chevy BB rod bearings. Oliver 6.8" rods. Here is the caveat, I have very limited room under the hood and so far the only intake manifold that works in the ford P.I.. I do not want to cut or modify the hood. I want to buy a set of aluminum heads and have them ported for my application in conjunction with the intake. So far I am planning on using hydraulic lifters because once the car is painted the fewer service under the hood the better.
Some people have suggested hydraulic rollers but I have heard so much horror stories about rollers that I plan to stay away. The car will be driven long distances to rallies and various shows and it has to be reliable. The car currently has a 428 setup with Edelbrock heads, a P.I. intake, custom made headers, Crower hydraulic cam and a 735 Holley. What do you suggest as far as heads? Could you port a new set of heads in conjunction with this manifold?
Thank

[Keithc8]

The stories that you have heard about roller lifters is true when it comes to solid rollers but is not the case with hydraulic rollers. The factory uses hydraulic rollers now in about every new car out there and puts 200,000 miles on them. I do not like the flat tappet stuff because we have had several people loose lobes. We use the hydraulic roller stuff on about all of our street engines and probably have 100 FE engine out there with them.
On the heads I would just go with our Edelbrock stage 2 heads for best performance. Just let us know how we can help with your needs. Thanks, Keith Craft

[FUNFER2]

Hello Guy's, I do not what to take over this thread but, I have a question for Keith, about the flat tappet's. I have over 2,000 miles on my cam, roller rockers (shaft mounted) and flat tappet's, with no problems. I adjust them every spring and if I'm racing. Just curious of what problems and why others are loosing the ca, lobes ? And, the same question about solid rollers. What & why don't they work out well ? Wanna learn from a Pro.

My cam & lifters. Comp custom grind- 600 lift- 252-260 duration- 112 lobe sep. CompCams double valve springs. "Erson" shaft mounted roller rockers.
Will I be looking at future problems ?
Thanks,
Kev

[Keithc8]

Not all flat-tappet cams are a problem but we have had more trouble with them in the last few years than ever before. The camshaft manufactores are saying that it is because the zinc and other important additives have been removed from the oil. We have been using Rotela-T for break-in along with GM OES additive. There are some special break-in oils out there from a few company's like Joe Gibbs for the flat-tappet cams. As long as the lifter spins and get plenty of oil during break in you are usualy ok. We also use low spring pressure when we are breaking the camshaft in. It is just a lot of trouble for use and a possible problem when we are doing as many engines as we are the hydraulic roller makes more sense.
The proplem with the solid roller is that it normally requires decent spring pressure and the lifters have roller bearings in them that need oil. When the engine is running at higher rpms it gets a lot of oil on the roller bearings. On the street the idling around is hard on these needle bearings in the lifters. They have come out with some street solid roller camshaft that do not have to have as much pressure and along with the new pressure feed lifters they are getting more life out of the solid roller stuff on the street. Just depneds on the power level and rpms that one wants. Good luck, Keith

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

Thanks Keith, I will buy the heads from you but what about the manifold? It should be matched to the heads and a little porting might help as well! Also regarding the Hyd. Rollers I have been told that the little tie bars break resulting in the lifter turning and ........ Big Mess!! The factory roller in modern engine have a different way of being held perpendicular to the cam lobe. Is it really a problem? What about the dove medium riser heads? Thanks
Emmanuel

[FUNFER2]

Thank you Keith !
Kevin

[Keithc8]

I have over 100 sets of the crane hydraulic roller lifters out there and have not heard of one tie bar breaking unless there was some other problem. We can help you with the manifold match and what ever else you may need. Thanks, Keith

[Ant]

Keith,
I am wondering maybe for people who like flat tappet camshafts, dont go for Shubeck ceramic flat tappet lifters, as you built for my engine, but one reason maybe clearance has to monitored a bit more regularly?

[RICK LAKE]

Ant what's up. Shubecks are about $1,000.00us last time I checked unless the price came down. The only guys running these lifters are the racers for 1/4 mile. They are looking for every rpm and lightest valve train parts. I would wonder about if a piece of metal shaving got between the lifter and the camshaft lobe, what damage and which surface would get a groove? I have that polycabon fiber gear on my MSD. So far no wear problem or pattern on either gear. Need more miles and recheck. I have a small hydro roller cam in the 482 now, runs great, it sounds like it has a solid lifter cam inside because of the T bars between lifters. Other than that everything is good. With good springs and camshaft you can run a hydro roller motor to 6,700 before pumpup starts. How high a rpm are you looking for? I am running the comp beehives, I like them. The motor is new and not broken in yet. I had no problem with the 452 and a little flat hydro lifter cam turning 6,200 rpm without pumpup. The motor was out of camshaft but went another 500 rpms more with these valve springs. 7,000+ is possible with lighter valve train and smaller valve stems and light rocker arms. A rev kit may be the answer to more rpm's with an FE motor. Looking into this over the summer. Have to get around the T bar for the lifters. Need alifter with either a groove like Jesel that ride in a lifter bore and is grooved or a T bar like the LS2 motors to stop rotation of the lifters. Brain storming at this time. Have a good one Rick L.

[Ant]

Rick,

Its all good, I have got going yet so I cant evaluate these Schubeck flat tappet lifters, my engine and use is more race with limited road use, my post wasnt that clear I am suggesting they are a better option in more of a race engine, and possibly a road engine, and less prone to breakage than solid roller etc.
The reason I got KC to install them was for reliability, plus camshaft break in is apparently better!A few guys use them on a street driven engine, but I guess you would go now days hydraulic roller for the street, as a lot of factory cars do, if you dont want to exceed 6800 - 7000rpm! Even with my internals I dont plan on revving this engine over 7200 - 7500rpm.

SFfiredog, speaks highly of Schubeck flat tappet lifters, I dont think these particular steel lifters with the button composite style are designed primarily for 1/4 milers, they are an alternative to solid roller. Weight wise I am running Jesel rockers, but nothing really lightweight as we went for stainless valves. I dont think these ceramic lifters are a lot lighter than steel lifters as the composite is attached to the steel lifter body.

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

Keith, Hi
Dennis showed me my stage 2 heads awesome, the ports look huge! should I use my PI manifold or get a MR blue thunder and have the carb port machined down? Thanks!

Regards,

Emmanuel

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

See above!

[Keithc8]

Sorry to respond so late but I believe either intake will work fine for you. Just have it gasket matxhed to the heads for best results. Thanks, Keith