I set up my four wheel align ment for next week. I had a quea - Page 3

big-boss · #1 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010, 03:36 PM

Tom you are the greatest! I, an engineer as well se the truth to what you just wrote I always knew it- you actually made since of the issue, thanks. That is why all the new cool machines and BMW and all the other cool guys are simply using degrees now and actually degrees based on each side to further the complex issue.

At the end of the day it really is about the tire patch on the road right? So if your tire pressue is up or down a couple of PSI all the laser ball scratching is for not anyway right? Our poor old Cobras were never meant for this type of percision- Those guys at lemans "back in the day" were just glad the tires were not being eaten off as they used their tape measures and those kool little pipe things with welding rod inside with a little clampy thing.

I took mine to a little shop with a 100K machine gave him all the specs and it was great. I have about 6K miles on it now- but things are different I feel it - I keep the tires the same as then but it drives different. So I plan on in the next week or so to take it back and get it redon to the same specs as before. I am sure it settled in I will report back. I did screw around with corner weights at first- I got them close and gave up. I just drive on the street anyway.

vector1 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010, 09:24 PM

you guys might want to keep in mind when setting toe, that toe in will tend to make a car easier to spin and harder to catch by pinning the front end in a spin. whereas toe out will make it turn in better and easier to catch. i haven't tried this experiment, just what my research has uncovered. i saw quite a few cars at an autocross over the weekend, and there were a few that spun out, and a few that pushed really bad, but nobody ran a loose car and was effective except a guy who ran scca autocross cobra and you could tell he was loose but he ran good times. makes me wonder where the toe was set on some of the cars, but i bet i could come pretty close on who had the toe in or toe out. production cars run the toe in and they can get away with it cause the cars are set up to push pretty well.

i just changed from .040 toe out and the toe out was real easy to drive, except for the bad ruts in the road and the 275 tires with 3 deg caster and 1 degree camber. 0 toe drives just as well but is less effected by the ruts. i ran the .040 toe out on the autocross course awhile back and the car handled real well on turn in and rear end control. back on the track i think i would set it toe out.

just my btw

Excaliber · #3 (**permalink**) 08-02-2010, 09:32 PM

I've run toe out on a couple of different cars through the years, works great for a low speed auto cross. I found it very unpleasant on the street, even scary on the drag strip. The car becomes extremely unstable and like to "dart" to one side or the other with even slight steering input. I'll stay with a bit of toe in and keep my setup basically for the street. On the track, I just do the best I can and let it go at that, it's "fast enough".

Jerry Clayton · #4 (**permalink**) 08-03-2010, 09:53 PM

The reason for toe in is that friction of the tire on the ground will force the wheel to run in a more straighter line at speed

Ronbo · #5 (**permalink**) 08-09-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

The reason for toe in is that friction of the tire on the ground will force the wheel to run in a more straighter line at speed

Yep, what I thought the purpose was as well. If you eliminate rubber bushings from the control arms (get rid of the suspention deflection) then 0 toe would provide lowest rolling resistance at speed.

vector1 · #6 (**permalink**) 08-10-2010, 04:49 AM

maybe another reason for toe in would be reduction of hydroplaning, you guys need to quit driving your cobra in the rain.

Tom Niebrand · #7 (**permalink**) 08-12-2010, 02:59 PM

I just started to reading all these post on toe setting today. I cannt hardly believe some of the thing i'm reading. I been in the alignment business sence 1984. We have done over 40,000 alignment mostly on heavy truck (18 wheeler). and we have some really nice small car's here when we are slow. Back in the day when we use toe-bar 1/8" in max. Big truck or small car. On a car that was going to run a short straightway road course. Maybe you could talk me into toe-out. but never on a down the highway truck or car. toe-out is unstable. With computer alignment some machine well set toe to 0 degrees . tenth. With are computer alignment we can set toe to 0 degrees 0 min. and 02.5 sec. that less then a frog hair. LOL

patrickt · #8 (**permalink**) 08-12-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Niebrand

I just started to reading all these post on toe setting today. I cannt hardly believe some of the thing i'm reading.

Uhh, I wasn't going to say anything, but on this last weekend's Muscle Car and Horsepower TV shows the guys were setting up the suspension for their new Mustang track car and they made a big deal about setting the corner weights first, before setting the toe, camber, etc. But I wasn't going to say anything....

Ronbo · #9 (**permalink**) 08-12-2010, 05:31 PM

Hasn't been mentioned but the first thing I'd do is a run-out measurement of each wheel...

If the wheel isn't true, your alignment will be wrong (camber and toe).

Unfortunately this problem rarely gets disovered the first time the car gets aligned.

Tom Niebrand · #10 (**permalink**) 08-13-2010, 11:13 AM

Going back in the day. People would scribe tires then set toe. That's how Henry did it. LoL. I'm just have haveing some fun.
With computer you have to do wheel run-out first be cause the computer well not let you do anything else until that done. Then you can set camber caster then toe.