QUESTION: New vs. older engines

[stimpy]

First of all, this board is AMAZING.

You guys are CRAZY knowledgable, and more than generous with your time/help.

For those of us looking at one of these things as a first time proposition, this forum is just a Godsend. Someday I hope to be able to give something back (when I have learned something worthwhile!).

So, here is another question for Kirkhamphiles:

Assuming a roller (like the one in for sale now), what are the advantages/disadvantages to putting in a Roush or saleen modern mill verses a traditional 427 plain vanilla block?

Any thoughts on drivability/reliability?

TIA (really!!!!)

[blykins]

What do you mean by Roush or Saleen? Are you referring to an FE made by Roush based on an aftermarket block? Or are you talking about a different family of engines?

[RodKnock]

Do you mean a 302ci Saleen engine with a supercharger from his SMS 302?

http://www.smssupercars.com/302.html

Essentially, you can put whatever engine you would like in your Kirkham, but it will depend on how much modification of the car you want to tackle and how much uncertainty about resale you can handle.

Nearly all 427 Kirkhams have FE's. I can't think of too many with non-FE's.

[RICK LAKE]

Stimpy If you are buying a Kirkham aluminium body car, you would be foolish to not go with period correct motor. Pond or Genises sell a correct date FE motor block. Period correct. As far as the rest, Stroke and Bore it to a min of 482 cids. Compression in the high 9's to low 10.0's. The motor will run on pumped gas. Build a torque motor. Max rpms 6,250 with limit to 6,500 rpms. As far as fuel system, FI system work overall better than a carb setup. Carb setup is easier. FI system can adjust for air temp, altitude, baro pressure. Carbs can only adjust with jet changes. HP ratings goes to carbs. Overall drivibility goes to FI system. A good FI system is in the $7,000.00 range for a top of the line adjustable system. If you are looking for a weber look, TWM's are the way. You need the small screens to keep out the dirty air.
If you ar looking for a investment and good money return on a cobra sc body, an FE is the winner. If the car is an FIA body style, a windsor stroker is the answer. For tranny's you want a 5 or 6 speed with over drive for the car. A 2.60-2.80 is the first gear in the trans ratio. final gearing for the rearend should be in the 3.07- 3.54. any thing higher is a waste of motor and gears. You want the car to cruise at 70 mph and have the motor about 500 rpms into the torque band. With a motor this big, a nice roller camshaft with a 112 LSA and .600" lift will work great, just a little lope in the idle. power from off idle will be crazy fun. Keeping down the rpm's will extend the life of the motor and drive train for many years. Basic maintainance will be the only thing. Couple of things to recommend for the car,
100 amp alt for power and charging the car correctly
5 or 6 speed trans with a 600ft rating of torque
power assist steering
aluminum motor, block heads, and intake manifold.
Find a REAL pro FE builder for the motor that knows all the inns and outs of the motor. There are a couple of the best FE builders here on this forum.
Safety and respect of this car is needed more than any other car you have owned. Short wheel base, big power, quick to respond to drivers inputs.
This is a good start to your question. IMO mod motors don't belong in cobra body cars. I have seen a couple of them and these cars are some of the fastest. If you are looking for a special look, Build a 427 CAMMER. that will have them talking. Rick L. Ps alot going to depend on how much money you have. figure about 40-50% more of what you are thinking for the whole bill. This doesn't include getting it inspected, registered in your state, and good old taxes. The smile on your face will be priceless.

[RestoCreations]

www.massfloefi.com makes a great fuel injection system that is hassle free. It costs around 4 grand and then you will spend another grand on the fuel system. It makes great power as well and i really dont think that it leaves much on the table. I love the look of the stack injection, but some of them are an enormous hassle to tune.

From my research, i would go with a newer shelby, pond, or genesis block. There are just too many questions concerning the older FE blocks and the chance of finding one that hasnt been molested are slim to none.

[JST4FUN]

To me an FE would be the right way to go. I can highly recommend Bob Parham of Southern Automotive south of Atlanta. There are certainly other good builders, but I know he specializes in FEs. I visited his shop at one point and he had a good stock of blocks. Mine is period correct and it certainly seems to be well built.

Check out [url="http://www.southernautomotiveengines.com"].

Good luck!

[gsharapa]

It always comes down to the individual and what you want, what you can afford and what's available. To me the 60s style engine built with todays products is what is desired by me. With that said their are a bunch of new engines that would be cool in a Cobra. Ford's new 5.0 is 430 HP right out of the box and if you look on YouTube some have already made it look and sound like and engine of the 60s with the quality, fuel economy and durability of 2010. Ford makes a bolt on supercharger with warranty that takes it to 600HP+. I'm a bit old school and just had a Keith Craft build me a all aluminum 496 FE (681HP) for my new Cobra. The cool things about Cobras....make it your project and what you desire in a Cobra...bottom line..they all are cool!

[stimpy]

for the color.

[Igofastr]

If you really wanted to be a purist, you'd put in a 4 speed toploader. Get one with an aluminum case from David Kee. Save some weight.

I miss my Kirkham.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Igofastr

If you really wanted to be a purist, you'd put in a 4 speed toploader. Get one with an aluminum case from David Kee. Save some weight.

I miss my Kirkham.

Ron, I'm sure thinking of your SPF GT40 helps you feel much better when you're feeling down about selling the Kirkham.

[Dimis]

Does any-one know whether the 5.0L coyote would fit in a Krikham?
What mods if any would be required?

Reason I ask is b/c it meets emission regulations for me.

Kind regards
Anth

[RestoCreations]

What would you do about exhaust? would you be forced to run catalytic converters? I assume so. I bet the engine will fit, but the wiring, sensors, exhaust, oil filter, mass air tube and sensor, radiator hoses, and fuel lines and fuel pump will be a mess. Not to mention that you will need a custom trans mount, driveshaft, and most likely need to raise the trans tunnel 1-2 inches.

[PANAVIA]

Keep in mind the Coyote is only 412 horse , just about anything else is more power.

You can put whatever you want into it, just remember , that if there is a chance of selling on the far end of this, your formulation will be judged by the marketplace.

More familiar -- more customers, more 1 off , the fewer customers.

Steve

[undy]

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

Keep in mind the Coyote is only 412 horse , just about anything else is more power.

With a ECM tune and good flowing cold air intake you'll see more than the 412 in rwhp. The new 5.0 is a bit under rated. One of the local guys is turning 10.54 @ 133 with his stock convertor auto 2011 GT. He's running a 125 shot, tune, headers, 410 gears, ET Streets and cold air intake.

[Dimis]

Thanks for the feedback,
RestoCreations - further thanks for the specifics.

I'm thinking 400rwhp is more than enough to get you in trouble, any more would certainly require slicks. Or would certainly get me killed.

Resale is not an issue, a Kirkham would be rare as hens teeth here in Oz. Anyway ...aren't we all taking them to the grave?

Further, There is NO-WAY the local authorities would allow any of the "older engines" to be registered. Windsors are not compliant and you can forget about any BB.

Besides - The only other alternative for me would be a GM motor.
I respect the LS7, it's killer engine, and a true modern day 7.0L 427. It would meet local registration requirements here, and is hard to over look.

For me the choice is thus forced to be modern - but whether it is 5.0L Coyote or LS7 that is the question...

All things being equal - I'd personally go for a stroked 427 SBF Alu block.
(I suggest not the most popular or traditional choice for a Kirkham).
But with that out of the equation, what would you use?

Hmmm?

PS: Apologies, for "stealing" / "redirecting" the tread topic.

Thanks again,
Anth

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Does any-one know whether the 5.0L coyote would fit in a Krikham?
What mods if any would be required?

Reason I ask is b/c it meets emission regulations for me.

Kind regards
Anth

Dimis,

Sean2789 in NSW is putting a Coyote in an SPF.

To do it in a Kirkham you will need to do some fabrication on your own. Minimally you will need to do motor mounts (pretty easy), a set of headers (a little tougher) and probably a rear transmission mount (no big deal). The Coyote uses the same mounting points/hardware as the earlier ModMotors. You could buy some of SPF's kit motor mounts and save yourself most of that job - the rest you gotta do.

You might wat to consider a 03/04 modern day Cobra engine. With a Whipple or KB you can easily hit 600 - 650 HP at the tire with 600 or so TQ also at the tire. The engine makes about 500 ft/lbs of TQ at 2000 rpm again at the tire (sounds like a broken record). Very close approximation to lightning in a bottle in one of these cars. A nice side note is that they have good street manners especially in the 1000 to 1500 rpm range.

The eye appeal when you open your "bonnet" is comparable to but not the same as a 427 SOHC. The two are virtually the same size! Valve covers, blower idler pulley hardware, and front timing cover are all cast aluminum and polish up to provide a stunning look for the engine. Did I mention you have a blower up top center on the engine - esthetically where they are supposed to be.

Almost forgot, when you don't have you foot in it, they routinely get 25 mpg on the highway and 19 in the city. Fuel requirements are pretty mundane at 91/93 octane. More is always better but 91/93 is pretty easy to come by. FWIW when you have your foot in it it is best not to try to measure the mileage - it is quite depressing. Extra added attraction optional at no additional cost - it passes original California emissions for a 2003/2004 factory Cobra. Even if your equivalent of CA's DMV is a direct descendant of the Gestapo (like ours are) you'll still sail through the test with flying colors - and the engine has the right DNA for the car.

Ed