FIA legalizes replicas

[Tom Kirkham]

It appears that the FIA has approved replicas to race in FIA sanctioned events. I am sure the cars must race with the homolagated parts, aluminum bodies, transverse leaf springs on 289 cars, Girling brakes, solid rotors, etc. I can't think of a better way to see LeMans, or the Tour de France, or all the other events in Europe.

http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...4_historic.pdf

[clayfoushee]

Tom,

Does that mean we'll see a Kirkham "Factory Team" on the FIA circuit?

[Jamo]

Might I suggest several Kirkhams be prepared and be available for rent to the most loyal Kirkham owners for such races? With all the frequent flyer miles you guys have stacked up, you could offer air/race packages.

[computerworks]

OMG - I'm building a "bitsa"

[Jamo]

Sounds French. [FTF]

[What'saCobra?]

i think it will be a chilly day in the spring that a non-original Cobra will be legal at Le Mans. The FIA is only saying they will certify that a particular car is the same spec as an original car in the new document.

It is still up to the organizers to decide what cars to allow and they are certainly not required to allow non-historic cars in Europe, even if they are clones.

i think the other entrants will not put up with a "fake" car, their words, not mine.

Long subject, too late at night, but more later.

[Jamo]

WhatsaMatter

I think you're right. It is going to have to be a high level reproduction made to spec. However, I do think the Kirkhams could do just that.

[Turk]

What if they said YES to Shelby cars regardless of year of manufacture and said NO to Kirkhams or other alloy cars.....
What then?

Not knowing a damn thing about the politics of it all and how the sanctioning body mindset woorks do they have the autonomy and the mandate to make decisions like that arbitrarily?

Who are they accountable to?

TURK

[Jamo]

They could do that.

They ARE the FIA. They answer to no one. They have proven that many times.

[What'saCobra?]

Nobody at the FIA ever had much truck with CS, not to worry. He most frequently bespoke himself out of their good graces. But money talks most gentle, doesn't it?

i have no doubt the K's can make a perfect copy of a real Cob and do it correctly enough to make Brian happy, even.

The point is that the organizers will get grief from the hairdressers (driving their 356 Carerras) that have got real cars and object to some imposters posing and making their real cars look poorly. Remember also that while the race fans loved the Cobras, other racers seriously disliked the cars, the drivers and everything about Cobras. And the Kirkhams will be exact, but spanking new, which will torque the other regulars whose cars may not be the perfect restorations we see here.

i can see this new FIA reg causing more XK-E's to race and since many of them are already old data plates lifted up and a new chassis slid under it, that class might not object. But, you know how people are...

Now, if someone important were to buy a K and ask to enter it, say some well known FIA entrant, that might get the ball rolling.

i would dearly wish that running the K's in historic FIA would happen. Particularly 427's in FIA Group 4. Perhaps initially in Monza or Brno where they need entrants to fill the grid? Certainly not Le Mans or Silverstone or the Ring. Can you imagine the nowl at the Oldtimer if someone brought a new K and it was accepted for entry! That is a very posh and hystorical hysterical crowd and IMHO, no way. Wish it were so, though.

i could see Mallory Park or Snetterton working, though. But, in the end, the number or real race cars sold will be few, since it costs a lot more money to race the car than buy it. Careful buyiing usually results in no lost capital, while race expenses are all gone, baby.

Let's face it, most Cobras are poseurs and not racers (particularly real cars). Nothing wrong with that though because that is what moves units. In the end, image/investment ratio sells, but performance/cost ratio enjoys.

Re-read the last sentence and think about it a bit. It contains a lot of experience and wisdom from mucho analysis of expensive high performance/image products...more than cars...here, let me write it again,

Image/investment ratio sells, but performance/cost ratio enjoys.

[Turk]

What'sthis,
That is so true. I wish that was available as a poster or bumper sticker. You would probably sell a ton of them.

Image/investment ratio sells, but performance/cost ratio enjoys!

[Trevor Legate]

Reference all the above.

I have to agree with all the sentiments expressed BUT with the proviso that the Replicas are already out there and have been racing for some time, in FIA events and others. I think the new ruling kinda makes allowances for these cars/owners.

I was just skimming through the postings about the FIA topic on the www.gt40s.com site and one posting stated that there was a Cobra currently racing that was a mixture of a new chassis, new body built to exact detail and various parts all bolted together to make a duplicate of the owners Genuine Cobra that is all nicely tucked up in his garage. The replica, he races. Naturally.

I know that to be true but cannot prove it, and one or two other cars are open to question. Just check out the lap times of Cobras at the Goodwood Revival.

It is hardly a state secret that the race Cobra (CSX2212) that Bill Shepherd used to contest the FIA Historic championship between 1990 - 1992 was, according to the entry in the SAAC Registry, a replica in every sense of the word. If the car stayed on the circuit, it was always in the top three and in '92 won 5 races!! Note: That's the 'FIA ' championship!!!!
If you have my Real Thing book to hand, look at all 3 pics on the left of page 138. None have seen the inside of a Thames Ditton factory.

I think that the FIA are on a loser no matter which way they jump, so they might just as well concede to the inevitable and ensure that the cars that do race are built to the correct specs of the period and leave it at that. It would be wonderful if, in a crazed spell of total honesty, all the owners of replica racers would, at the end of a meeting such as the Revival (Monterey?) have the nerve to line them all up away from the genuine cars. Might be a bit of a shock.

And then of course, we have the E-types, GT40s and as for the Lola T70's...............

[What'saCobra?]

Of course, what you say is true. As the truth gets out about cars that are already accepted, but clearly illegal, as it inevitably will, the FIA is in a fix either way.

There is a certain car up the M40 that is a complete replacement, along with changed engine mounts and one of the early non-Daytona's with the transmission tunnel "bridge trestle". The Daytona "trestle", as you remember, was a state secret for many years that helped inprove the otherwise awful 289 chassis flexibility in the years of the World Championship.

How that chassis modification got by the FIA in the day is a wonder. Ferrari certainly didn't do their homework, did they? Or does the race GTO have similar mods, of which i am completely unaware? It is certainly not a fillet or gusset to improve safety, unless you are meaning SA's investment of FORD's money in the car. So, because SA considered this mod rather proprietary, in the day drivers of their un-trestled 289's were at a disadvantage, weren't they?

It is interesting to note that the 427 chassis was, at least to my knowledge, never "bridged" like this. Perhaps it is not necessary? Perhaps no one bothers? Perhaps i am touching a live wire?

But, you are sadly correct, my son; i suppose that in the end the promoters need grids and the FIA has already looked away for too long and the deeper waters are already mucked. i actually hope that the grids would be more open, but it puts nice old originals at a serious disadvantage, since the new cars will inevitably have new improvements which the old cars must adopt to remain competitive.

It is certainly tolerated here in the US, even in the CanAm cars, in which new M6B McLarens sprout out of the desert ground from time to time. And, yes, the Lola T70's are all becoming MKIIIB's, since "real" FIA papers here are not necessary and ignored, much to the loss of more than a few sadly uninformed buyers.

i know of at least one FIA documented March 707 that has an entire M8F suspension system in the rear to replace the March kluge. If Peter's German McLaren M8F knew about it, i am sure he would have protested, but it is stateside now or has been for a while. But, i suppose since he might not have been all that popular, he never found out...

[Trevor Legate]

I would be shocked and disappointed if Ing. Enzo F. missed a golden opportunity to add a few mods to the 250GT chassis when he slid the GTO under the FIA's door. He didn't get where he did by playing with a straight bat, Old Boy! You could write about it....there's a thought.

Its not just a matter of converting T70s to IIIB spec, but whole new shiny clones, doncha know?

And I thought there was only one March 707...? Or am I getting confused.

It would be lovely to have an FIA scrutineer pop up here, icognito of course, and spill a few facts about how they determine what is true or false, or nearly true, or just about true enough to race. And just how many cars would be left to race if they really cracked down and applied the letter of the Law. I would have thought that they have to turn a blond eye in many cases. One classic example is the Daytona Cobra that raced at the Goodwood Revival. I spoke to a number of people who really thought that was One of The Six. (they wish...)
But the problem was hightlighted when the Collier museum elected to race one of the Corvette Grand Sports at Gooders last year and the car was an innocent party in a multi-car pile up at the chicane when 2 GT40s wanted the same piece of road. I can hardly believe they were happy with the damage to the nose of such a valuable bit of kit. It would be fantastic to see that car back again, but I will not be holding my breath. Should they have built a replica? Would anyone have known?

[csx700?]

for that matter good old C.S. raced a rebody listed as a " '67 shelby daytona coupe " as listed in the official program at monterey last year where as the other "original" coupes were listed as either " '64 or '65 cobra daytona coupes "............. i believe Earle is very picky about the cars entered but what about this?........................oh yeah i forget at times who C.S. is.