overheating 427...a reprise

[steve meltzer]

’m sorry that I haven’t posted the list regarding the overheating problem I was having on my Kirkham with Southern’s sideoiler, but I made an agreement with Bill Parham that I wouldn’t post anything about this until it was resolved. I want to thank everyone who contributed to helping me, and all of the efforts everyone has put forth. After lots of experimentation and phone calls between Bill Parham and me, it appears that the problem is one of air flow. Bill was great to work with and keenly interested in the problem. At one point he even offered to take my car, at his expense, to Georgia to sort things out. WOW what great service...just like the Kirkhams! On the interstate, with an ambient temp of about 97°, the car is at about 88-90C, but in town, with the decrease in air flow, it runs about 95-102°C, requiring not only the puller fan, but the 2 pusher aux fans as well. I’d really like to know what temperatures others are seeing with big block fords in the hot summers. Anybody use a smaller WP pulley? thanx again to everyone. steve meltzer


"Never enough time to do it right, always enough time to
do it over"

[mr0077]

Steve, in same conditions you describe, mine runs under 83 C (180 F) on the freeway (over 25 mph) and warms up to 90 C (195 F) on local streets, regular stop and go traffic. During rush hour it might get to 96 C (205 F) on a 95+ degree day.
I'm using a set of March underdrive pulleys on a stock cast iron water pump with the standard ERA aluminum radiator and the Ford expansion tank. I only have the single puller fan on the back of the radiator, and I leave it on auto (thermostat) control. I never manually turn on the fan unless I see a major traffic backup.

[steve meltzer]

I was wondering about the pulleys. Are they March's? If so, is it just the WP, or the Crank and Alt as well? Do you know the part numbers? When I ran the Spal fan, but not the new modified shroud and the Cooling Components setup, I had 82C on the freeway at an ambient of 96F and about 95C in town...without the aux fans. I may go back to the Spal, or else try to fiberglass the shroud to get it to work like it should. In theory, it'll move about 15% more air than the Spal, but I think it's lost with the modifications made to accomodate it to the car. thanx steve

[mr0077]

Steve
I don't remember the part number for the set, it is a crank/water pump/alternator set. What sort of shroud are you running? If you have your car back together, bring it out to The Fountains tomorrow evening. We're meeting about 6:15 at Barry's Pizza for a bite and then going to the car show at Otto's in the same shopping center. It is on the north side of US 59 just past Kirkwood. I'd like to get a look at your car and check out what you've done with the cooling.

[ToyCollector]

Steve,

Congrats on your honesty and I am sure you will enjoy your car going forward. Bill personally contacted every Kirkham owner I know with one of his motors including me to solve the issue. You, and he, are to be commended in how this issue was solved.

Personally, I avoid stop and go and high heat driving as I just do not find it enjoyable at all in one of these contraptions. On a 80-90*F day on a country road I was at 75*F-80*F engine temp two weekends ago. Personally, I would like to see the Kirkhams build a nice shroud for the backside as the way the puller fan is mounted they are not sucking any air from the corners of the radiator, thus losing by my eyeball's estimation 30-40% more cooling effectiveness. Sorry, I call it like I see it, and saw yesterday a Kirkham with a one-off custom puller shroud that frankly the Kirkham's need to take a look at. Thus the likely reason for compensating with the two pushers.

[Jamo]

Steve...for comparison's sake.

My Kirkham is set up the standard way. Unlike TC, I drive it in the heat on a regular basis.

Last week, in 105F temps, in stop and go at 4 p.m. for about 45 minutes...never got above 90C. On the highway, 80-85C.

I have one puller and two pushers, the latter for looks. On the day noted above, I ran only the single puller.

As you may know, I've got a stroked Shelby with a big cam.

Mine has run cool like that since the beginning.

[steve meltzer]

I would love to see a custom made puller fan with a shroud that would really seal 'er up. I agree that with the Spal, a large part of the rad isn't benefitting the way it could, and I'm not convinced that the new setup is a hugh improvemnt, if one at all. However, it does seem to substantiate the theory of low air flow as the culprit. I'll drive my car in any temp condition, 'cause if I didn't, it would be sittin' in the garage. However, I'd really like to see those temps down like Jamo's. What T-stats are you guys runnin'? thanx

[Jamo]

160

[Allan A]

Steve,

I have the same results as Jamo, I do agree that a nice shroud would be a plus. I talked to one fellow who just added foam around the fan and he said it was night and day. It would be easy to do for test purposes.


Allan

[steve meltzer]

this is very interestng, 'cause tho' we have a very small sample, the Shelby engines seem to be a common link to the lower temps. Are you guys using the Spal fan and Kirkham's radiator?

[ToyCollector]

Note to my above post, engine temps should have been Celsius.

I run no T-stat, just a restrictor that slows water flow (this can become an issue in cold climates, even here in GA in winter as the engine takes FOREVER to get up to temp). I am still breaking in the motor (non-broken in motors run hot as well by nature due to higher friction). Keep us posted Steve. I will be playing with my car more often now that I got a charging system issue solved and will introduce it to more stop/go heat and longer runs as it breaks in.

Jamo, I wish I knew enough about humidity and high temps versus even higher heat/lower humidity to know what relevant effects it has on ambient temps and cooling, but sadly I do not. I can just tell you it may not break a 100* here often, but 95*F and 90%+ "humdity" as I call it is HOT!! I vacationed in Phoenix once in July, and it seemed more tolerable than the southeast in July (great prices BTW for Phoenix travel ).

[Jamo]

I am. I think Allan's CSX uses a different radiator.

[mr0077]

I run a 180 degree t-stat. I agree about sealing the fan to the back of the radiator...my last Cobra had cooling problems until I split some rubber tubing and slipped it onto the fan shroud to seal the fan shroud to the radiator. It made a BIG cooling difference.

[Allan A]

Steve,

The CSX rad is about an inch thicker based on a KMP I recently looked at. We were working on a rad cover to look like an original.

I am not sure what the spal fan is? I have a single puller and twin push, they come on at 90c and keep the motor there during traffic with high ambients. I run just water and Turks side business Water Wetter. No humidity here

[Jamo]

Fresno is not dry as some think, however it's certainly not as humid as Georgia. We have T-storms backed up against the Sierras, and irrigation is going full bore.

However, using the old water cooler/evaporation analysis, wouldn't humidity help cool? I don't know either.

Allan lives one ridge away from the BAY...he does get humidity...compared to here.

Water, a little coolant for lubrication benefits and water wetter.

My fans are on switches. I turn the puller on whenever I hit stop and go...keep it cool rather than let it get hot.

[Allan A]

Jamo,

It is all realitive, if I have to work down at the Cape or Kings Bay I want to kill myself. The heat and humidity at those locations would kill any normal Nor Cal boy.

Allan

[Excaliber]

160 T-Stat here, single puller fan I leave on ALL the time. Freeway it will run 160-170. Heavy stop and go traffic (Waikiki) and 90 Deg heat I'll see 200-210. Doesn't bother me, engine seems to run fine, cools right down when I start moving again.

[Jamo]

Assolutely...Bakersfield is much dryer than Fresno...and it stinks too.

[Jamo]

Who gives a sh!t about Hawaii. 10, maybe 20 miles of road in the whole damn place.

[Excaliber]

Dry air has a greater heat capacity than humid air. So less humidity will make for better radiator cooling.


I suspect it doesn't make "that much" difference, but I wonder......

Yup I use the term "freeway" very loosely!