Kirkham Marketing Question. What do you guys really want?

[DrewFFRCobra]

David,

Interested in taking a FFR in on trade? Seriously, this is a GREAT idea and if you can deliver on it I think you'll have tons of repeat Cobra builders/owners lining up at your door for an aluminum bodied Cobra.

Now, on the options:

#1: This idea is probably only good for guys who want to go vintage racing (does a Kirkham qualify for HSVRA?). If these body/chassis combos fall into the hands of garage builders, they will likely never get completed into an operable car. If they do make it into an operable car, there will be many that were built with inferior parts and you run the serious risk of tarnishing the Kirkham image (all you have to do is look at the poor quality FFRs for evidence). Personally, I'd only sell your body/chassis to original CSX owners (crash repair) or Kirham owners needing repair.

#2: A good idea, but it should be a HUGE difference in price from option #3. Price difference should be in mid to upper 4 figures or even 5 figures cheaper. This is where I spent a TON of time and money on my FFR tracking down proper bolts, fasteners, and fabricating things I didn't like the way that FFR took shortcuts (not that FFRs solution was bad...it just looked cheap). The parts prices combined with time to have them located/sent, price of phone calls, price of postage, etc. makes this a time consuming and ultimately more expensive option.

#3: This is the ticket for many of us. Sell us everything we need and don't send us all over to try and find it or figure out what we need or want on our own. Package everything by the sub-group and /or task and include a name and label on every package. Provide decently detailed instructions and take detailed pictures (you already do from what I've seen on your website) that can be hosted on your website (a build library of sorts). Have most of the major or important holes / attachment points on the chassis predrilled...smaller holes (i.e. riveting panels together, etc.) can be handled by the builder. Only include wheels as an option on this kit (the Cobra will be on jack stands for much of the build, so the customer can delay this purchase until towards the end). Use a high quality zinc primer and automotive chassis paint on the frame (don't powder coat the chassis...it's not original and can't be touched up easily). Do not include sidepipes...customer can purchase later when these parts are needed. Similar to Unique Motorcars, offer custom headers for the different FORD V-8 PUSHROD powerplants that could be used.

#4: You already have this option and know the success you've had with it. Keep it as another option for your customers who do not want or cannot build a Cobra for themselves.

Also, perhaps consider an option that is in-between #3 and #4 where Kirkham installs the suspension and body and hangs the doors, hood and trunk lid. Similar to ERA in that the whole car is not done, but can be rolled around and has a build time of 90 - 120 days for the guy who maybe only has 20 hours or less of spare time per week to build.

Thanks for considering a "build-it-yourself" option. Feel free to email me directly (drewporta@lycos.com) for clarification or to act as a sounding board for ideas...I'm your target market afterall.

[What'saCobra?]

Psst, Mike...

Scaled down replicas tend not to be particularly safe, mostly due to high wing loading, but there are many other issues.

So, though this is over-simplification of a very very complex subject, unless you plan a full scale replica and mega dollars thereby, a cautious soul might consider another nemesis. Consider getting a real one.

Good luck.

(Why not have David help find you a decent MIG-15 or MIG-17 from his friends in Poland? Much cheaper, faster, very impressive and it can function as a runway ice remover and hangar heater in the winter. And just about as dangerous.)

[BLACKJACK]

HEY, WHAT'SA - - - -

1. HAVE YOU SEEN THE PRICES OF "REAL" P-51s ???

2. THERE AIN'T "NUTHIN" LIKE A P-51. I HAVE OVER 23,000 HOURS AND THE 60 OR SO IN THE '51 ARE AMONG THE MOST MEMORABLE.

3. I PRESENTLY OWN AN "ORIGINAL" P-39 BELL AIRCOBRA AND I'D SWAP IT, TWO COBRAS AND THE GT-40 FOR A NICE (FULL SIZE) P-51 REPLICA.

4. I DEFINATELY AGREE WITH YOU ON THE "MINIATURES" - -AND WING LOADING IS ONLY PART OF THE PROBLEMS.

5. I'VE FLOWN THE MIG-15 - ABOUT 25 HOURS - I'LL TAKE A P-51 ANY DAY, THANK YOU.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK-21, OUT

[What'saCobra?]

Dear Jack,

Impressive.

We agree.

And to think, i thought it too much to purchase a NEW Cavalier (fresh OH of a 2 place Mustang, transport heads and fresh prop) from down here in Tampa some years ago. They were asking over $25K for Pete's sake!

No way, Jose. Big rip-off, says i.

Wrong.

My error.

Should'a, could'a, would'a...

i did get a few COBs though.

We might have a mutual acquaintance in Mr. Baker, New Smyrna Beach?

As i recently read:

AUDENTES FORTUNA JUVAT

[BLACKJACK]

OH, YES - - -

I REMEMBER THE CAVALIERS WELL. NICE TWO SEATERS WITH CARPET LINED GUN BAYS IN THE WINGS - GREAT FOR CARRYING GOLF CLUBS ETC.)

I PICKED ONE UP AND DELIVERED IT TO A DOCTOR IN PITTSBURGH. THE INVOICE PRICE ON IT WAS $17,200.00 I THOUGHT THAT WAS RATHER OUTRAGEOUS - IN AS MUCH AS ONE COULD PURCHASE A "RAW" F-51D FOR ABOUT $3500.00. OF COURSE THE "CAVS" HAD NEARLY EVERYTHING EITHER OVERHAULED OR NEW - - WITH MODERN (AT THAT TIME) ELECTRONICS.

OF COURSE - I'M THE SAME "IDIOT" THAT COULD HAVE PURCHASED AN ORIGINAL 427 COBRA OFF THE SHOW ROOM FLOOR IN FALLS CHURCH, VA FOR $7800.00. MY EX-WIFE TALKED (B1TCHED) ME OUT OF IT. ANY WONDER WHY SHE'S MY EX-WIFE???

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK

[niles]

David;
You might talk to Chuck; he has built a Hunter and a Kirkham in the last 3 yrs. Send me PE and send you his home phone
gn

[David Kirkham]

Blackjack,

I too have a fantasy of making a P-51D. Maybe some day. I will have to get through my current offerings though--before I go crazy. My father says the P-51 was one of the most "emotional" experiences of his life. (Not quite sure what he meant by that--but I would like to find out.) He said he watched them push them out into the ocean in Korea--just to get rid of them.

Niles,

I have paid particular attention to Chuck's, and other current owner's, comments as we have been driving down this road.

What'sacobra,

I think you will be pleased with our new, revised deposit policy we are going to implement shorlty.

Still working on this thing.

David

[CSX 4027]

My dad who is celebrating his 80th this year flew 32 missions during WWII in the nose of a B-17 as a Bombardier.

B-17's are really cool

[What'saCobra?]

DK
Finally, i can stop whistling?

Good for you and your customers. For the sake of some administrative effort, not ever easy, you can provide potential customers with the peace of mind unavailable anywhere else.

And, it is the right thing to do.

And you don't have so many problems explaining to the accountants about percent complete recognition of orders.

i am impressed with the attenpt.

i look forward to being astounded at the results.

For you and us Cobra-possessed munchkins.

[What'saCobra?]

Now, if we could just get the congress to pass individually-owned retirement programs, like the one they get, all would be right with the world.

[Dangerous Doug]

David,
So, can those of us that are holding our breath expect to hear something announced by Kirkham on the "Garage Therapy" after the February Kirkham Summit?

Dangerous "Turning Blue" Doug

[STG]

Blackjack,

Years ago, I ran across an airline pilot that was in the process of developing a full-sized carbon fiber P51D. I visited his shop in Gardena, California where I saw all thirteen(!) pieces of the airframe. It was designed for an Allison, Merlin or PW PT6. The turbine version used the radiator for a luggage compartment.

I lost track of thje guy and don't know if he completed the prototype.

[BLACKJACK]

HI, STAN - - -

WOW - - - I'M SALIVATING AT THE THOUGHT.

THE TURBINE POWERED P-51 MUST BE REALLY COOL - - BUT - - THE SOUND OF THE MERLIN OR ALLISON (LIKE A COBRA) IS A BIG PART OF THE "MAGIC".

I'D LOVE TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT IT.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK

[london]

I'd prefer this:

http://www.autosportdesigns.com/Sale...age.asp?ID=853

[What'saCobra?]

Afro-AmericanJack,

You might look at this for answers:

http://www.cameronaircraft.com/P51/cameron_aircraft.htm

Then this for fun:

http://www.centuryjet.com/webstore/c...fm?Category=26

and then this just for laughs:

http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40130

Meanwhile, i will have a nice day when i bloody feel like it, when i am darn good and ready for it and not upon your smart-buttinski smily-faced instructions. If i feel like a little well-earned self-pity, that's my business. Have your own nice days, for Pete's sake.

Wink.

[What'saCobra?]

And please stop yelling!

Perhaps consider learning to access lower case at your earliest convenience. It is often found by pushing that little caps lock key under your left pinky, which will also shut off the geenish idiot light on the upper right of the self-same key.

JUST A SUGGESTION, MIND YOU! I'M NOT IN CHARGE AND DON'T WANT TO BE, BUT THE YELLING DISTURBS MY CONCENTRATION.

[BLACKJACK]

WHATSACOBRA - - - -

1. NOT AFRO-AMERICAN JACK.

HOW ABOUT DUTCH-GERMAN-CROATION-AMERICAN-JACK SINCE YOU APPEAR TO BE ONE OF THOSE FOLKS WHO FEEL COMPELLED TO QUALIFY CITIZENSHIP IN THAT DROLL MANNER.


2. THANKS FOR THE INTERESTING INFORMATION ON THE P-51. SOME PRETTY COOL STUFF. MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE FOR A FULL SIZE REPLICA THAT ACTUALLY "REPLICATES" THE ORIGINAL P-51D.


3. I PERSONALLY DON'T GIVE A SH!T IF YOU EVER HAVE A NICE DAY OR NOT. IT'S AN EXPRESSION OF POLITENESS INTENDED SOLELY FOR THOSE POSESSED OF SUFFICIENT MANNERS AND BREEDING TO BE ABLE TO ACCEPT IT AS SUCH. ALL THE REST CAN PLEASE OBSERVE THE MISTLETOE HANGING FROM MY COAT TAIL.


4. I'M NOT YELLING (OKAY - PERHAPS I AM NOW). I'VE BEEN COMMUNICATING IN "ALL CAPS" EVER SINCE I JOINED THIS FORUM - - - ABOUT FIVE OR SO YEARS AGO. I KNOW HOW TO USE A COMPUTER AND I CHOOSE TO USE IT IN THE FASHION THAT SUITS ME - - NOT YOU.


5. I VALUE YOUR "SUGGESTION" JUST ABOUT AS MUCH AS YOU VALUE MINE.


6. YOU'RE RIGHT!! YOU'RE NOT IN CHARGE!!


7. IF YOUR CONCENTRATION IS THAT EASILY DISTURBED YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER YOGA LESSONS - OR SOME SUCH THING; IN ANY EVENT, YOUR PROBLEM IS WELL BEYOND ANY CURE THAT MIGHT BE AVAILABLE HERE.


AT ANY RATE - - - HAVE A NICE DAY - OR HAVE A SH!TTY ONE. IT'S ALL THE SAME TO ME.


DUTCH-GERMAN-CROATION-AMERICAN-JACK

[Jamo]

Why don't you all just shut the **** up and get back to talking about Kirkham cars here in this manufacturer's forum.

Your cooperation IS expected.

[BLACKJACK]

OKAY - - - -

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- (But just because you have never veered from a subject line, Jamo).

[What'saCobra?]

Apologies to the K Guys, as i genuinely forgot this was a reserved site and not appropriate for my bitter-root meanderings...and time-wasting helps.

Meanwhile, i wish them well with any safer deposit strategy, which i again describe the industry's need of in "CSX 4700 seris problem", Chuch H's topic.

Only wish i could make the homecoming.

Apologies again, David.