Afghanistan, more troops?

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

Yep, I've read it many times before, and I like it. It just does not apply here, and the sooner we get our heads out of cold war thought processes the better off we will be.

MacChrystal seems to realise this - hopefully Obama will listen.

Steve

No...instead Obama and his DC folks chose instead to chastize him for talking about his thoughts in public.

For a liberal, he sure does like to screw with the First.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Jamo

No...instead Obama and his DC folks chose instead to chastize him for talking about his thoughts in public.

For a liberal, he sure does like to screw with the First.

I think you know as well as I do that the military does not have quite the same use of the First that a bunch of angry old farts posting on a forum do.
There were a number of generals who resigned when Bush was in office rather than make their thoughts known. I give a lot of credit to our upper echelon military guys who have had to endure more than their share of bad civilian leadership from both parties (Bush Sr. was the last one worth a damn IMHO). I can understand a general not wanting to risk a court martial and possible loss of pension for speaking out against the CinC, but I personally think we are at a point where it really needs to be done. Obama won the election in large part due to Bush not listening to his generals - we will see if history repeats...

And as an aside, Project Confidence is not going to go over too well with the home crowd who can't think past lunch time today. That should be a fun sell...it's probably a good thing that nobody reads anymore.

Steve

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

I think you know as well as I do that the military does not have quite the same use of the First that a bunch of angry old farts posting on a forum do.
There were a number of generals who resigned when Bush was in office rather than make their thoughts known. I give a lot of credit to our upper echelon military guys who have had to endure more than their share of bad civilian leadership from both parties (Bush Sr. was the last one worth a damn IMHO). I can understand a general not wanting to risk a court martial and possible loss of pension for speaking out against the CinC, but I personally think we are at a point where it really needs to be done. Obama won the election in large part due to Bush not listening to his generals - we will see if history repeats...

And as an aside, Project Confidence is not going to go over too well with the home crowd who can't think past lunch time today. That should be a fun sell...it's probably a good thing that nobody reads anymore.

Steve

Steve...I truly don't think I need instruction on the Constitution from you, buddy.

My comment reached beyond the current snafu...I'm also talking about how Obama tries to control what opponents say about his health care proposals and other issues. Actually, he's starting to remind me of Agnew. (ouch!)

As for the general's comments...seems to be a bit of mixed message from the Oval Office...they put him out there as their face for Afghanistan and to promote a troop buildup, but when they start encountering questions about that approach, especially from his own party, they then belatedly try to pull him back in.

THAT's what happens when too much attention is placed on controlling the message.

And don't come back with a Bush analogy...not even close. Bush's folks were pretty damn open about their thoughts, even as to their disputes, which is not a bad thing.

Again...please don't waste your good efforts on Constitutional teachings on me. It's sort of like talking to a plumber about how sh!t is created.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Steve...I truly don't think I need instruction on the Constitution from you, buddy.

My comment reached beyond the current snafu...I'm also talking about how Obama tries to control what opponents say about his health care proposals and other issues. Actually, he's starting to remind me of Agnew. (ouch!)

As for the general's comments...seems to be a bit of mixed message from the Oval Office...they put him out there as their face for Afghanistan and to promote a troop buildup, but when they start encountering questions about that approach, especially from his own party, they then belatedly try to pull him back in.

THAT's what happens when too much attention is placed on controlling the message.

And don't come back with a Bush analogy...not even close. Bush's folks were pretty damn open about their thoughts, even as to their disputes, which is not a bad thing.

Again...please don't waste your good efforts on Constitutional teachings on me. It's sort of like talking to a plumber about how sh!t is created.

Well, you tried to instruct me on computer networking and security once - so fair is fair...

I agree about this being one of Obamas failings, and it is something I have a rather large problem with this current administration on. They are very shortsighted and seem to be only able to handle the information needed for the soundbite. They rarely seem to plan a few moves ahead and anticipate something simple like a general being asked questions during the dog and pony show...so they try to control it after the fact.

Bush had a completely different set of problems that had more to do with the decision maker refining things to too simplistic a level, and not changing the strategy when it became painfully obvious that things were not working. His administration was more open about some things (and I agree that was good), but once the decision was made then discussion was over - not good if the decision needed to be modified.

Still - if Kerry had won he would still be pondering what the right thing to do would be...

Steve

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

Well, you tried to instruct me on computer networking and security once - so fair is fair...

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Steve

Well...damn it all to hell, you're right.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Jamo

No...instead Obama and his DC folks chose instead to chastize him for talking about his thoughts in public.

For a liberal, he sure does like to screw with the First.

Right Jamo, he can forget that next star.... I can sure remember the good old days when Rummy encouraged everyone to speak their mind about whatever they wanted without fear of retribution and not only encouraged descent but rewarded it....and Richard B. Meyers was DOD speak for BOTTOM...

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

Right Jamo, he can forget that next star.... I can sure remember the good old days when Rummy encouraged everyone to speak their mind about whatever they wanted without fear of retribution and not only encouraged descent but rewarded it....and Richard B. Meyers was DOD speak for BOTTOM...

Note my remarks to Steve...They (Obama et al) put him out there.

Also, Bush had an former area commander (Powell), "Rummy" and Cheney (and his dad) to rely on and listen to during those first few years of response in Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm glad they didn't all agree...at least they knew what they were talking about. Many generals agreed with Bush...when you allow folks to disagree, the decision-maker is always going to have some folks who think his decision is wrong.

Obama has Oprah.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Note my remarks to Steve...They (Obama et al) put him out there.

Also, Bush had an former area commander (Powell), "Rummy" and Cheney (and his dad) to rely on and listen to during those first few years of response in Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm glad they didn't all agree...at least they knew what they were talking about. Many generals agreed with Bush...when you allow folks to disagree, the decision-maker is always going to have some folks who think his decision is wrong.

Obama has Oprah.

Gee....Jamo, the problem was he didn't listen to his Dad ....he even admitted it...saying he spoke to a higher power...how come you are indulging in these cheap shots ?? Oh well...I'll be back in a month or so to throw a few bombs...see ya...

[Dan40]

Bush this, Bush that! Bush is GONE! He is not coming back! He is so far gone he blew the political aspirations of the 'smart' brother, JEB, too!

Bush is history, period. Obummer is the CiC and he is lost in dreamland. He has no clue of reality. He wants reality to meet with his far left fantasy world. He NEEDS to deal with reality as it is but he has no clue and his "advisors" ALL come from the same fantasy dreamworld.
He doesn't even realize that he is still campaigning to be President and he hasn't an inkling how to actually BE President.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

Gee....Jamo, the problem was he didn't listen to his Dad ....he even admitted it...saying he spoke to a higher power...how come you are indulging in these cheap shots ?? Oh well...I'll be back in a month or so to throw a few bombs...see ya...

You overestimate me...I can be as cheap and dirty as anyone here. Refences back to Bush in this thread are assinine (my intent in being so cheap)...Obama owns the war now.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Jamo

You overestimate me...I can be as cheap and dirty as anyone here. Refences back to Bush in this thread are assinine (my intent in being so cheap)...Obama owns the war now.

Actually, Jamo, WE own the war - both of them - always have and always will.

I bring up Bush because as far as I am concerned he and the people who voted for him had their chance and screwed the pooch. They have no business telling anybody else how to get the job done unless and until the GOP gets their heads out of their collective asses. If you can convince Bush to run again I'll vote for him - pair him up with a young guy who is a real (Where's Evan when I need him!) conservative rather than one of these neo types, and you might actually have something. Throw in Scowcroft and I'll even place a few votes for GOPers running for Congress.

And what are 'refences back to Bush'? Something he's now busy putting up around his ranch, or are you just trying to infiltrate the libs?

Steve

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

* * *

And what are 'refences back to Bush'? Something he's now busy putting up around his ranch, or are you just trying to infiltrate the libs?

Steve

Shhhhhhh....I'm huntin wabbits.