Its over, the Dems win

[Excaliber]

Did you miss the part where the OMB issued a correction and it will now do little to reduce the deficit?

No I didn't miss that, it's another example of Republican spin, sustained, altered and further twisted by the radical right. The OMB estimate, and granted it is only an estimate, was only SLIGHTLY reduced from it's original number. The projection is the deficit will STILL be substantially reduced.

SPO1715, if you don't believe the estimate it is likely you don't understand how the calculations were made. A more reasonable approach would be to question the math than to dismiss the calculations.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

No I didn't miss that, it's another example of Republican spin, sustained, altered and further twisted by the radical right. The OMB estimate, and granted it is only an estimate, was only SLIGHTLY reduced from it's original number. The projection is the deficit will STILL be substantially reduced.

SPO1715, if you don't believe the estimate it is likely you don't understand how the calculations were made. A more reasonable approach would be to question the math than to dismiss the calculations.

From what I have seen, read, heard, I don't think the OMB, and maybe even you, understand the numbers or calculations.

Currently, there are 40,000,000+ on Medicare, and 60,000,000 on Medicaid.

And the governmment wants to insure another 47,000,000 - That's a 50% increase.

Currently, Medicaid (the cheapest government insurance) pays about $3000/yr/person, or about $250 month/person, or about $1000/month for a family of four, close to what private insurances charge.

Of the money spent on Government healthcare, Medicare and Medicaid, I can tell you there definitely is not a 33% waste factor, unless you cut out screening for mammograms, colon cancer, "unnecessary" heart bypass operations, etc. There really is virtually no waste. It's all really limiting health care services to a much greater degree than they already are, that is, to a level that they limited to in other countries, what OBAMA considers to be waste. No more brand name drugs, just generics, you won't have a choice. The only way to make the numbers come out not adding to the deficit is to cut medical benefits/services by 33% to pay for the extra 47,000,000.

You're clueless.

Unfortunately for us, those are the numbers, and those are the facts.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

No I didn't miss that, it's another example of Republican spin, sustained, altered and further twisted by the radical right. The OMB estimate, and granted it is only an estimate, was only SLIGHTLY reduced from it's original number. The projection is the deficit will STILL be substantially reduced.

SPO1715, if you don't believe the estimate it is likely you don't understand how the calculations were made. A more reasonable approach would be to question the math than to dismiss the calculations.

And how often has OMB been right, historically? Sorry I had to use that word liberals hate and don't understand.

But every time they make a tough call, they;re wrong.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

SPO1715, if you don't believe the estimate it is likely you don't understand how the calculations were made. A more reasonable approach would be to question the math than to dismiss the calculations.

Would you please explain to me how the calculations are made?

[bomelia]

Anybody know where the PDF is for the current Senate Health Care Destruction bill? Get this, (and I would like to prove it) parts of the bill contain wording that say no future congress can repeal or change the bill.

mike

[Wes Tausend]

...

I haven't paid much attention to the actual health care bill but I probably know as much about it as any here.

I can say that the atrocious amount paid for my monthly health insurance meets or exceeds the amount of federal with-holding out of my check, a shocking ratio.

Now I will maintain that I earn this "benefit" because I, and my actual boat-rower worker kind, earn every nickel that my company makes, including pay for the management guys calling cadence, freeloading stockholders riding in the boat and government guy sitting in the back regulating us all. We earn it by doing 100 percent of the rowing that moves the packed rowboat.

With the real and only creation of wealth firmly established, we can concentrate on the ratio I first mentioned up above.

My health insurance, therefore healthcare, costs as much as is needed to run the entire rest of the country. Either running a country is an incredible bargain or healthcare is way, way overpriced.

Which leads me to wonder where all the health money is going. I wonder if some of it is being used to buy the pricy abysmal lying ads on TV that tout, it is better to leave things the way they are? In that case I'm being tricked into paying for my own rectal assault.

I can't help but think that if I paid just a little more, I could have vaseline. I bet they get free vaseline in Canada.

John Q. Public
aka Wes

...

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

...

I haven't paid much attention to the actual health care bill but I probably know as much about it as any here.

I can say that the atrocious amount paid for my monthly health insurance meets or exceeds the amount of federal with-holding out of my check, a shocking ratio.

Now I will maintain that I earn this "benefit" because I, and my actual boat-rower worker kind, earn every nickel that my company makes, including pay for the management guys calling cadence, freeloading stockholders riding in the boat and government guy sitting in the back regulating us all. We earn it by doing 100 percent of the rowing that moves the packed rowboat.

With the real and only creation of wealth firmly established, we can concentrate on the ratio I first mentioned up above.

My health insurance, therefore healthcare, costs as much as is needed to run the entire rest of the country. Either running a country is an incredible bargain or healthcare is way, way overpriced.

Which leads me to wonder where all the health money is going. I wonder if some of it is being used to buy the pricy abysmal lying ads on TV that tout, it is better to leave things the way they are? In that case I'm being tricked into paying for my own rectal assault.

I can't help but think that if I paid just a little more, I could have vaseline. I bet they get free vaseline in Canada.

John Q. Public
aka Wes

...

Good one.

A few weeks ago, I went into my doctor's office for a physical. He is really a great guy. He jokes around and is pretty laid back. I asked him if he could bring the physical in at under $500 because that is all my company will pay. He said no problem...then I joked..."with all the huge money you guys are making, I thought the double digit raise you get every year would kill that idea". I thought he was going to keel over with laughter. All the doctors in this hospital system work for the hospital. There are no private practices. He showed me a letter he had just received the day before asking for a 9% cut in salary. He said the rest of the staff was soon to get theirs. So..I asked..my health insurance has increase by double digits for close to 10 years now...where is all the money going? He said he had no clue. The stories..at least in Ohio...about malpractice suits are full of bs. He did tell me to watch the bonuses the hospital execs get. They seem to increase yearly by huge amounts.

After that, we moved on and he did use vaseline. As least he has a bit of sympathy for the average guy...LOL

[RAZOR]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

...

I haven't paid much attention to the actual health care bill but I probably know as much about it as any here.

I can say that the atrocious amount paid for my monthly health insurance meets or exceeds the amount of federal with-holding out of my check, a shocking ratio.

Now I will maintain that I earn this "benefit" because I, and my actual boat-rower worker kind, earn every nickel that my company makes, including pay for the management guys calling cadence, freeloading stockholders riding in the boat and government guy sitting in the back regulating us all. We earn it by doing 100 percent of the rowing that moves the packed rowboat.

With the real and only creation of wealth firmly established, we can concentrate on the ratio I first mentioned up above.

My health insurance, therefore healthcare, costs as much as is needed to run the entire rest of the country. Either running a country is an incredible bargain or healthcare is way, way overpriced.

Which leads me to wonder where all the health money is going. I wonder if some of it is being used to buy the pricy abysmal lying ads on TV that tout, it is better to leave things the way they are? In that case I'm being tricked into paying for my own rectal assault.

I can't help but think that if I paid just a little more, I could have vaseline. I bet they get free vaseline in Canada.

John Q. Public
aka Wes

...

Its obvious you work for the railroad because you have a "ONE TRACK MIND"



Free loading stock holders?Take them away and what do you have?Here is what you have NO BOAT to row. You should be thankful for them not demonize them. Many of them are just average people that are trying to build a nest egg for retirement.
Government has proven time and again it can't compete with the efficiency of private enterprise i.e. USPS losing big money and Fed Ex and UPS in the black.

[bomelia]

Wes, I have to agree with Razor on this. Investors are NOT freeloaders. Without them, companies cannot expand or invest in new technologies (well, not very fast). It all depends on the profit margins. Companies do not allow investors or stockholders in just so they will have one more place to spend profits. That's a dumb concept (one btw, many share).

Stockholders are investors. Investors provide risk capital for the company to expand with. As the company grows, so does your investment (401k, profit sharing, etc.) grow. Your having a dim view of stockholders will not negatively effect the company you work for, unless of course, you are high up in the command chain.

Mike

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by RAZOR

Its obvious you work for the railroad because you have a "ONE TRACK MIND"



Free loading stock holders?Take them away and what do you have?Here is what you have NO BOAT to row. You should be thankful for them not demonize them. Many of them are just average people that are trying to build a nest egg for retirement.
Government has proven time and again it can't compete with the efficiency of private enterprise i.e. USPS losing big money and Fed Ex and UPS in the black.

...

Well, I have to admit I kind of like and admire Warren Buffett. But he would probably be the first admit that things are currently skewed in the favor of stockholders vs the public. If he gets 10% return a year he will have all his money back in ten years. But it may not be that good during this recovery.

I think the USPS really started to lose money when privatised Fed Ex and UPS took all the gravy freight. Almost like it was planned, you think?

Wes

Wes, I have to agree with Razor on this. Investors are NOT freeloaders. Without them, companies cannot expand or invest in new technologies (well, not very fast). It all depends on the profit margins. Companies do not allow investors or stockholders in just so they will have one more place to spend profits. That's a dumb concept (one btw, many share).

Stockholders are investors. Investors provide risk capital for the company to expand with. As the company grows, so does your investment (401k, profit sharing, etc.) grow. Your having a dim view of stockholders will not negatively effect the company you work for, unless of course, you are high up in the command chain.

Mike

That was the way it started. Business does not have to be incorporated and can even be a co-operative, and investment money mysteriously is still there. Corporations have grown to a vehicle for being completely uninvolved, contributing nothing that wasn't already there, and taking a huge profit off the top of the folks that provide work. I wish it was as cheap as other welfare.

We need to re-write corporate law. There will be the usual moans of pain.

Rats. I hear an oar calling. No, it was the phone looking for a beast of burden. Sigh. Later.

Wes

...

[PDUB]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

My health insurance, therefore healthcare, costs as much as is needed to run the entire rest of the country.

John Q. Public
aka Wes

...

I'm struggling with your math, Wes. One more time, how did you arrive at this conclusion?

[Tom Kirkham]

Seems that the unions are not too happy either...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...orkers-relief/

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

SPO1715, if you don't believe the estimate it is likely you don't understand how the calculations were made. A more reasonable approach would be to question the math than to dismiss the calculations.

I know what the CBO has calculated, but they only calculate what they are given. The fact is taxes are being collected 4 years in advance of benefits being delivered, as well as counting on medicare cuts. Most politicians are saying that cuts in medicare are not realistic, so those savings are not going to happen.

On top of all this what has the government ever done within budget? What were the estimates when medicare began? what has the actual cost been? I am retired from the government and my wife still works for the government. The difference between private sector and government is the private sector actually has incentive to reduce cost, while the government does not.