Hospitals / Doctors now refusing to take Medicare

[DAVID GAGNARD]

I think this letter from a young doctor pretty much says the way the majority of the people feel about the health care issue...........



Dear Mr. President:
During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ringtone.
While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as "Medicaid"! During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer.
And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman's health care? I contend that our nation's "health care crisis" is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a "crisis of culture", a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based in the irresponsible credo that "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me".
Once you fix this "culture crisis" that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you'll be amazed at how quickly our nation's health care difficulties will disappear.
Respectfully,
STARNER JONES, MD

David


=

[Excaliber]

Starner Jones MD, sure doesn't sound like a very smart guy, I wouldn't be surprised if the email is bogus. Those on Medicaid will not be impacted by the current health care bill, nor will they have an impact on it. Secondarily, fixing a "culture crisis" is like trying to fix "stupid".

It's a fact some "poor folks" spend a significant portion of their income on CELL PHONES, there's been a couple of studies on that. It's makes them feel "equal", raises their self esteem. Often in a poor community it is THE "status symbol" and is peer pressure driven. It's the same principle as the Cadillac parked in front of the run down trailer or public housing unit. Gold tooth? Same, same. Her cupboards are bare, she has no furniture, her life is miserable, but she's "looking good" on the outside. Such is the plight of the poor.

[mdmull]

As often happens, the above post proves the point of the precedent.

[Excaliber]

Pray tell what precedent would that be? A typical rich white guy who live's in Mississippi, drive's a BMW, has perfect white teeth, live in a nice house, is a racist and completely out of touch with about half the population of his state?

I hope he is not typical, but fear he MIGHT be!

...the guys an idiot.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Starner Jones MD, sure doesn't sound like a very smart guy, I wouldn't be surprised if the email is bogus. Those on Medicaid will not be impacted by the current health care bill, nor will they have an impact on it. Secondarily, fixing a "culture crisis" is like trying to fix "stupid".
.

I think he may be smarter than you think. My take on it is that he was basically saying that the current system is already screwed up, that is Medicaid, a system designed by congress that encourages behavior like had outlined.

[Excaliber]

I don't follow how Medicaid encourages such behaviour? From his description of the patient are we to assume she is "rich" to some degree or that she is committing fraud?

I would have to assume she meets the requirements for Medicaid, OR, she is committing fraud. What we do know: She is black, has a "shiny gold tooth", tatoo's, a nice cell phone, smokes, wears good looking tennis shoes, drinks beer and eat's pretzels. Sounds an awful lot like a typical American to me, with one big exception. She's on welfare. Assuming she is not committing fraud the expenditures for these "trappings of wealth" cut into her cost of living equation much deeper than a typical American. Should the poor then not be allowed to at least appear to be equal to a typical American standard of living? Should they be pious and plainly dressed? Just WHAT is the conclusion I'm supposed to draw from this white doctor denigrating a black woman in a state with a history of white folks suppressing black folks? Where nearly 50% of the population is on welfare? Just what is it he propose we do about it?

Oh yeah, change the "culture crisis". Were working on it. The literally poor blacks in this state no longer have to sit in the back of the bus. They can vote, they can work. They now have a shot at appearing "NORMAL", if not in reality at least in appearance, often at great personal cost far beyond what the typical American would spend. Or would we prefer they return to wearing rags and second hand clothing and show up for a job interview dressed as such?

Perhaps he has a point. But, as a white doctor in a very poor state talking about his disgust of a black woman on Medicaid he has no voice. Folks like HIM are the problem, not the solution!

[392cobra]

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. - Thomas Jefferson

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."– The late Dr. Adrian Rogers , 1931 to 2005

[Excaliber]

Thats a valid point 392cobra. Another approach to health care reform that should be considered, tightening up the requirements for Medicaid, controlling fraud with Medicaid, Medicare, SSI (a large increase in disability claims these days) as well as "rationing".

The Medicaid requirements are pretty tight already, perhaps better enforcement of those existing standards? Ditto for Medicare. "Fashion police" are not the answer.

Rationing, now THAT is going to be incredibely controversial. Fact is we already have "rationing", it's based on one's ability to pay, or not. I see no other choice but to implement it in a more reasonable way in the future. It's already something we do but rarely talk about.

Another approach I see as positive is to get more people signed up for health care. IF we force the insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions then folks will simply wait until they need care! White folks, middle class with a decent income, driving a nice car, got the big screen TV. Why sign up until you need it? Really no different in their thinking than the poor (literally) black lady with the nice tennis shoes. Just trying to "fit in" and be like the "Jones". Fraud is fraud. But there just "playing by the rules" you say? So is the black lady in Mississippi! The middle class is just as capable of taking advantage of the system as the poor class is.

To "force" people to sign up, that ALL must buy health care insurance and have coverage ALL the time (according to their ability to pay) is a valid option. To ignore it is like trying to ignore racial profiling. We don't want to do that, but then again, there is that troubling "reality" check that get's in the way.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Thats a valid point 392cobra. Another approach to health care reform that should be considered, tightening up the requirements for Medicaid, controlling fraud with Medicaid, Medicare, SSI (a large increase in disability claims these days) as well as "rationing".

The Medicaid requirements are pretty tight already, perhaps better enforcement of those existing standards? Ditto for Medicare. "Fashion police" are not the answer.

Rationing, now THAT is going to be incredibely controversial. Fact is we already have "rationing", it's based on one's ability to pay, or not. I see no other choice but to implement it in a more reasonable way in the future. It's already something we do but rarely talk about.

Another approach I see as positive is to get more people signed up for health care. IF we force the insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions then folks will simply wait until they need care! White folks, middle class with a decent income, driving a nice car, got the big screen TV. Why sign up until you need it? Really no different in their thinking than the poor (literally) black lady with the nice tennis shoes. Just trying to "fit in" and be like the "Jones". Fraud is fraud. But there just "playing by the rules" you say? So is the black lady in Mississippi! The middle class is just as capable of taking advantage of the system as the poor class is.

To "force" people to sign up, that ALL must buy health care insurance and have coverage ALL the time (according to their ability to pay) is a valid option. To ignore it is like trying to ignore racial profiling. We don't want to do that, but then again, there is that troubling "reality" check that get's in the way.

MEDICARE requirements. Must be 65 and must have paid in for 40 quarters.

One's ability to pay is not rationing. A semi-clever twisting of words but wrong. And CARE cannot be denied on the basis of payment.


A bit of news that did not make the press or TV. MEDICARE has issued their reimbursement schedule for 2010. It is considerably lower than 2009.
FYI: MEDICARE pays Docs and hospitals according to MEDICARE'S own payment schedule, not a % of charges. Insurance companies quickly follow MEDICARE'S lead.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Pray tell what precedent would that be? A typical rich white guy who live's in Mississippi, drive's a BMW, has perfect white teeth, live in a nice house, is a racist and completely out of touch with about half the population of his state?

I hope he is not typical, but fear he MIGHT be!

...the guys an idiot.

I guess I missed it and you didn't, so please show me in the doctors letter where the women is black???????? I'm sure there are plenty of white women around that fit this same exact drcription!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bleeding heart,liberal democrats ( like you) just love to add/delete certain words here and there to turn something around totally to suit their agenda just like you did with the doctors letter......He was making a statement of Crisis Care and the people he has treated and from that you determined he was a rich white guy from Mississippi that drives a BMW and is a racist, damn, your good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since your such a good person with good intentions for the 20 million without health care, the proper thing for you do to would be contact the doctor and find out whom this patient was and buy her the type of health insurance she's entitled to, according to you....I'm sure she would be grateful and change her ways!!!!!!!!!!!!...this would do far more than obamas plan.....but my guess is that'll never happen, cause bleeding heart,liberal demcrats want nothing but the best for the down trodden, as long as it is with someone else's money (i.e.,rich white republicans)

Oh yeah, change the "culture crisis". Were working on it. The literally poor blacks in this state no longer have to sit in the back of the bus. They can vote, they can work.

Just as a point of reference, I'm not that old, but old enough to remember "white only" and "black entrance" signs on resturants and other business in my own hometown, at the time, the population was maybe 4,000............
Didn't agree with it then and still don't now, but I didn't put up those signs, just the same as NO ONE in my family ever owned slaves, so don't try and make a middle class working white man feel guilty cause he has a decent house, nice car and a few dollars in the bank......

Yes, they can vote and do, THEY CAN ALSO WORK, BUT DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[Joe Wicked]

Ex,
I have no problem with people on Welfare who need to be on welfare. I have a problem with the multitudes that collect welfare, medicaid etc... that do not need it, but do not WANT to work. I truly believe that a great deal of tax dollars are wasted on these individuals both with welfare and with medicaid. If you CANNOT work, for reasons of mental or physical issues, then yes we should take care of those people. If you cannot hold a job because you are an alcoholic, drug addict, or just plain lazy, then I have no sympathy for you. You take the tax dollars that are wasted on these individuals and give it to those who are working, and doing for society to give them health insurance, I will stand behind that plan. I have met very few recipients of welfare who NEED welfare, they CHOOSE to not work, why should I have to take care of them. I say limit lifetime welfare without a court order to continue. Make it law that you can only draw a set time (Say 5 or 10 years) over the course of your life. This is there to help those that get laid off, those who try to find work and try to not be a drain. Make them show it. Make it hard. Make them justify every penny they spend. I get irritated when I see someone using their foodstamps (Lonestar card here in Texas) and loading the food into a nice Escalade. I don't care about status symbols, If they were driving used minivan or an Explorer or anything of that nature, I would not second guess it. But when you see someone driving a new Escalade with the 24" Rims, having an obvious high end custom stereo, I cannot be OK with buying their food for them. If they need HELP give them help, not free handouts.

Edit: I spent years eating hot dogs and ramen noodles to save money for stuff I wanted. I did not get any free handouts, there is no reason why someone should expect to have the best of everything and not have to work for it status symbol or not.

[Dan40]

Do the emotional reasons for people to have gold teeth, Tommy Hilfiger clothes, Air Jordan's, cells phones and such justify the millions wasted on them having such?
And why people want to advertise a product wearing its logo on their body, I don't know.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Joe Wicked

Ex,
I have no problem with people on Welfare who need to be on welfare. I have a problem with the multitudes that collect welfare, medicaid etc... that do not need it, but do not WANT to work. I truly believe that a great deal of tax dollars are wasted on these individuals both with welfare and with medicaid. If you CANNOT work, for reasons of mental or physical issues, then yes we should take care of those people. If you cannot hold a job because you are an alcoholic, drug addict, or just plain lazy, then I have no sympathy for you. You take the tax dollars that are wasted on these individuals and give it to those who are working, and doing for society to give them health insurance, I will stand behind that plan. I have met very few recipients of welfare who NEED welfare, they CHOOSE to not work, why should I have to take care of them. I say limit lifetime welfare without a court order to continue. Make it law that you can only draw a set time (Say 5 or 10 years) over the course of your life. This is there to help those that get laid off, those who try to find work and try to not be a drain. Make them show it. Make it hard. Make them justify every penny they spend. I get irritated when I see someone using their foodstamps (Lonestar card here in Texas) and loading the food into a nice Escalade. I don't care about status symbols, If they were driving used minivan or an Explorer or anything of that nature, I would not second guess it. But when you see someone driving a new Escalade with the 24" Rims, having an obvious high end custom stereo, I cannot be OK with buying their food for them. If they need HELP give them help, not free handouts.

Edit: I spent years eating hot dogs and ramen noodles to save money for stuff I wanted. I did not get any free handouts, there is no reason why someone should expect to have the best of everything and not have to work for it status symbol or not.

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I STILL eat round steak, hot dogs and ground meat regularly, not t-bone and sirlon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[Excaliber]

One's ability to pay is not rationing. Nice spin Dan, I aint buying it!
No need to even address this. Rationing of Health Care is a fact in America. To hide it, shroud it, dismiss it is unconscianable. Yet, that is precisely what hard right radical conservative nut bags (since we choose to use labels like bleeding heart liberals, just following the lead here) do all to often.

I have a problem with the multitudes that collect welfare, medicaid etc... that do not need it, but do not WANT to work.

Me too, who doesn't? And your point is? Should be deny ALL people Medicaid? Tighten the requirements? Enforce fraud provisions? What percentage do you think fit's into this group? THINK about it, not just some hard right wing nut response like "all of them".

...shiny new gold tooth, multiple elaborate tattoos, a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and a new cellular telephone equipped
with her favorite R&B tune for a ringtone.

Mississippi has the highest poverty level in all 50 states and is substantially African American in makeup. The Doctor IS white and he really did say this! R&B ringtone and other descriptions leave little or no doubt about this patients racial background. It is very clear who he is talking about.

Fashion is not part of the requirement for medical care or welfare qualification.

To ALL those who cannot help but refer to myself as a "bleeding heart liberal" let me return the favor. You are radical right wing nut tea baggers in every sense of the word and in every definition of the term. You are pseduo facist's who cannot stand it that someone disagrees with your opinios.

You offer NOTHING in the way of solving the problem, only continually whine and cry about how it's costing you. I don't have the slightest problem collecting even more of your taxes to support the less fortunate, you greedy bastards.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

One's ability to pay is not rationing. Nice spin Dan, I aint buying it!
No need to even address this. Rationing of Health Care is a fact in America. To hide it, shroud it, dismiss it is unconscianable. Yet, that is precisely what hard right radical conservative nut bags (since we choose to use labels like bleeding heart liberals, just following the lead here) do all to often.


Me too, who doesn't? And your point is? Should be deny ALL people Medicaid? Tighten the requirements? Enforce fraud provisions? What percentage do you think fit's into this group? THINK about it, not just some hard right wing nut response like "all of them".

Mississippi has the highest poverty level in all 50 states and is substantially African American in makeup. The Doctor IS white and he really did say this! R&B ringtone and other descriptions leave little or no doubt about this patients racial background. It is very clear who he is talking about.

Fashion is not part of the requirement for medical care or welfare qualification.

To ALL those who cannot help but refer to myself as a "bleeding heart liberal" let me return the favor. You are radical right wing nut tea baggers in every sense of the word and in every definition of the term. You are pseduo facist's who cannot stand it that someone disagrees with your opinios.

You offer NOTHING in the way of solving the problem, only continually whine and cry about how it's costing you. I don't have the slightest problem collecting even more of your taxes to support the less fortunate, you greedy bastards.

"One's ability to pay is not rationing. Nice spin Dan, I aint buying it!."

Dan could NOT care less what you are buying or not. You speak liberal, I speak American English. No way I can understand, or want to understand the convoluted, irrational liberal language.


"You offer NOTHING in the way of solving the problem, only continually whine and cry about how it's costing you. I don't have the slightest problem collecting even more of your taxes to support the less fortunate, you greedy bastards."

Dozens of alternative suggestion/plans have been put forth. But unless they involve stealing from those that have to waste on the ones that won't work, you say no plan was offered. Sort of some kind of 20-20 anal vision.

"I don't have the slightest problem collecting even more of your taxes to support the less fortunate, you greedy bastards."

And then there is that. Do you ever wonder why no one agrees with you?

If the obammercare bill was passed, not only would 20 million more NOT get coverage but costs would skyrocket to the point that all without coverage today would be joined by about 50 million more that would no longer be able to afford it.

Your liberal giveaway programs have worked for over 50 years, WHEN, we were the richest nation on the Earth. Now we are broke. As a society, as a nation. We are broke morally and fiscally. When obummer was elected, THAT DAY, 50 % of the nation wanted the economy to be the number 1 priority. 5% would like to see health care reformed. You don't get it and the anointed one doesn't get it either. Without jobs, there is no tax revenue to be had. Before the job losses, HALF the population paid NO income tax. Now even less pay. Half the people cannot support the already out of control Government. And obummer, a "supposedly" intelligent person wants to add another $Trillion burden [which will miss the mark and grow to 3 or 4 times that]. There is no one left to pay the bills. Tax the rich, tax businesses? The rich and businesses are the same thing. Tax them and they pass it on to the consumer. The consumer can afford less, the business pulls back, lays off, the depression deepens, and the expected higher tax revenues turn in to more tax shortfalls.

You liberal Utopian dreams and compassion ARE beautiful. No one can argue with the IDEA. But 'other people's money has run out." And without other people's money, liberal ideas are not JUST impractical [they always are that] they are IMPOSSIBLE.

[Excaliber]

There is not ONE reasonable plan offered to date by the conservatives that will have a significant impact on health care reform. NOT ONE.

...and thanks for your use of the term Liberal, I can handle that. Your a conservative, fair enough. No need to add extra descriptions on either side (you freakin' Nazi ).

For instance, "across state lines" insurance. MIGHT help, worth exploring, but in the end, not a drop in the bucket toward real reform. In fact substantial risk it could INCREASE the problem!

Reform MUST include limiting medical care in some manner.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

To ALL those who cannot help but refer to myself as a "bleeding heart liberal" let me return the favor. You are radical right wing nut tea baggers in every sense of the word and in every definition of the term.

I'll accept that for now........and "us" tea baggers are tired of the way OUR goverment is wasting OUR tax dollars and we are now doing something about it, it's called VOTING!!!!!!!!! Did you not notice the election in Mass. recently??????
I'll bet next weeks pay, you'll see a lot more of this in the next 2 to 4 years....
Actually obama is doing America a favor with his healthcare and other give-a-way programs, he has made sure he will NOT be re-elected, and Jimmy Carter is the happiest man in the North America right now!!!!!!!!

I don't have the slightest problem collecting even more of your taxes to support the less fortunate, you greedy bastards.

We knew that already, that's why we feel the way we do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote][Mississippi has the highest poverty level in all 50 states and is substantially African American in makeup. The Doctor IS white and he really did say this! R&B ringtone and other descriptions leave little or no doubt about this patients racial background. It is very clear who he is talking about.

/QUOTE]

Yes, he is white, there was his picture attached to the e-mail letter, BFD,and yes,his description would certainly point to a black women, but I can easily find you plenty of white and hispanic women that would fit that description also........Unless your absoutely 100% sure or have proof that he was referring to a black women, calling him a racist is wrong...........

You offer NOTHING in the way of solving the problem, only continually whine and cry about how it's costing you

But we do, it's call welfare reform!!!!!!it's called Medicade/Medicare reform!!!but the democratic party will hear nothing of this, they don't want to lose anymore votes!!! it's also called, get off your lazy fat a$$ and go to work and buy your own health care and take resonsibility for yourself and your family........it's not the goverments job to raise and support these people......

The goverment pays teenage single girls to have babies, pays to feed and cloth them, supports them throughout their lives and then has to pay to bury them when they die, all the while they have contributed nothing, they just take everything they can along the way, well, the working middle class is finally fed up with this and it's starting to show at the polls.....

Our own fine Senator Landreau sold us out for 300 million and now she's considering not running for re-election, good thing, cause she probably wouldn't win an election for dog catcher about now...but, she does have something in the works, she's going to be a lobbyist on capitol hill!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW: her office in Louisiana and Washington DC WILL NOT answer any phone calls, return any e-mails, they have publicly said they will read any letters they recieve, but may or may not respond to them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!how's that for a paid public servant, that refuses to talk to the very same people she is supposed to represent!!!!!!!!!

David (hard working middle class citizen and hard right radical conservative nut bag)

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

There is not ONE reasonable plan offered to date by the conservatives that will have a significant impact on health care reform. NOT ONE.

...
Reform MUST include limiting medical care in some manner.

Then why not cancel Medicaid and limit the ER to American citizens ?

[Excaliber]

Medicade/Medicare reform!!!

Yeah, I'm in!! Absolutely needs to be a part of reform! Limiting to US citizens is tricky, I sure would LIKE to see that. But other issues will make it a tough sell, like denying a dying patient emergency care regardless of his status. Perhaps Doctors/Hospitals should be given more lee way to make that call?

Using the ER for "primary care" (cold, fever, splinter) we need some method to penalize those who abuse the system in this manner. It's WAY to common!

Everyone on "welfare" gets reviewed on a regular basis, "forced" to sign up for work (like unemployment standards) and is denied services or have to pay back benefits if they refuse to work.

The number of folks now applying for disabled worker status is off the chart! Many of these are just regular folks who were working a year ago and have now run out of unemployment. Very tough call what to do with this group?

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

There is not ONE reasonable plan offered to date by the conservatives that will have a significant impact on health care reform. NOT ONE.

That is correct, not one, DOZENS!

Originally Posted by Excaliber

...and thanks for your use of the term Liberal, I can handle that. Your a conservative, fair enough. No need to add extra descriptions on either side (you freakin' Nazi ).

Now you're proud to be a Liberal.
Last week you were claiming to be an independent.
Pointing out the Liberals are illogical and out of touch with reality is FAR different than calling someone a Nazi

Originally Posted by Excaliber

For instance, "across state lines" insurance. MIGHT help, worth exploring, but in the end, not a drop in the bucket toward real reform. In fact substantial risk it could INCREASE the problem!

Both the tort reform and selling insurance across state lines were conservative ideas. Of which ideas you said right above there were none.
Both could help but both would face considerable court challenges. Trial lawyers on tort reform, and States Rights on crossing state lines

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Reform MUST include limiting medical care in some manner.

Could you show me where it is written that you establish the ground rules?

I said illogical Liberals. You want to cover more people by limiting medical care? I don't speak Liberalese, can't understand that convoluted "thinking."