Hospitals / Doctors now refusing to take Medicare

[Wes Tausend]

...

UAW $75/hr ...$130/hr... You guys are nuts. Not anywhere near that. What a crock of anti-labor BS propoganda.

On the other hand, my health insurance costs maybe $1000-$1100/mo as a benefit where I pay about 10-20 percent. It adds up to more than my Federal with-holding per month. One is a Cadillac health plan fund, the other fund runs the entire rest of the country. Health seems a little over-priced, about $2000 a 15 minute visit, especially since lowly paid nurses do most of the work. Or maybe the Fed is under-priced.

Wes

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[Ron61]

Wes,

One is a Cadillac health plan. Boy are you on Obama's list now. Only politicians will be allowed to have these after this great health reform bill. read that pork bill, is passed. Now if you were to add me to that plan that should take it out of the Cadillac class.

Ron

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Wes,

One is a Cadillac health plan. Boy are you on Obama's lost now. Only politicians will be allowed to have these after this great health reform bill. read that pork bill, is passed. Now if you were to add me to that plan that should take it out of the Cadillac class.

Ron

I don't know, Ron. Maybe politicians and political commentators will be favored.

I think I have never heard more horse hockey over a political program.

Wes

...

[BeanCounter]

Wes,

Here is how it is calculated.

Real GM hourly wage is $28/hour
Toyota Georgetown (Kentucky) pays $27 to $30/hour
Adding in GM benefits, the current employees cost about $51/hour
At Toyota, they cost up to $55/hour including benefits
So where does this $75 number come from? Where is the wage gap where GM is getting killed on cost?

Look at the retirees.

When you add in retiree health benefits, you get the $75 number. Toyota just doesn’t have as many retirees here in the U.S. because they’ve only employed people for about 20 years.


Consider this: At the end of 2007, GM had 365,000 retired hourly employees, as opposed to 62,000 active hourly employees.

When you have roughly SIX retirees for every worker, that seems pretty unsustainable. That’s the problem right there. That’s the way Social Security is bound to look some day, but that’s a different discussion for a different blog.

[95CobraR]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

It all depends on their specialty and how hard they are willing to work. He is at the hospital at 5:30am , 6 days a week for rounds.....

Bob,
Your post was right-on.

But please allow me to explain exactly what a guy (or girl) has to do before to even start practicing medicine:

• College: 4 years (and you better have a GPA of over 3.5 [of 4.0]).
• Medical School: 4 years (then you compete with other guys that also had superior grades as a mere undergraduate).
• Internship: 1 year.
• Residency: 2 years. This is where they really test you. They'll send you down to a hospital ER and place you on call for 72 hours in a row. You hopefully can nap between gunshot victims, heart attacks, and bleeders. Many die at your hands so you must go talk to the surviving family members.
• Fellowship: 3 years. This is where experienced doctors watch your every move for three years.

Then you must pass the Board Certified exams, if you desire to be Board Certified. And who wants to see a doctor that isn't?

Then it gets easier. You just need to rent office space, hire a nurse, and a receptionist (at a minimum). That is $300,000 in annual overhead expenses before you see the first patient (including a massive malpractice insurance premium to protect against idiot lawyers who can get a law license online on the internet). Of course, you need to hook-up with other partners or other doctors in your specialty unless you want to be on call 24/7 for the rest of your life.

And despite the rumors, most doctors are sworn to help the sick. They always do it for free if the patient doesn't have insurance (you swear by your Creed of Conduct). Most doctors take Medicare (it actually pays better and quicker than most insurance companies).

Obama and his fellow crooks in Congress have solved nothing. They just want control of 17% of this country's GDP.

[Excaliber]

They just want control of 17% of this country's GDP.

I believe that is an absolutely false statement, all though it makes a great sound bite. Nor do I believe Health Care reform is about securing more votes or is even politically sound reasoning! It would be far more expediant to just leave it alone. So what IS the motivation? I think it stems from a sincere motivation to grant access to health care to a segment of the population that has been denied such coverage.

The Republicans and Democrats have attempted various reforms over the decades with some success and some failures. It is an extremely difficult issue to grapple with and no way will you keep all people happy all the time. It's an impossible task and this latest attempt at reform may ultimately fail to pass as well.

Flawed though it may be, I hope it does pass. We really do need to address the issue of to many American's being denied quality health care for one reason or another. THAT is simply not acceptable in a civilized society.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I believe that is an absolutely false statement, all though it makes a great sound bite. Nor do I believe Health Care reform is about securing more votes or is even politically sound reasoning! It would be far more expediant to just leave it alone. So what IS the motivation? I think it stems from a sincere motivation to grant access to health care to a segment of the population that has been denied such coverage.

The Republicans and Democrats have attempted various reforms over the decades with some success and some failures. It is an extremely difficult issue to grapple with and no way will you keep all people happy all the time. It's an impossible task and this latest attempt at reform may ultimately fail to pass as well.

Flawed though it may be, I hope it does pass. We really do need to address the issue of to many American's being denied quality health care for one reason or another. THAT is simply not acceptable in a civilized society.

You cannot be serious!!! (why does that sound familiar?)

A politicians every waking moment, probably sleeping ones too, is about power and re-election. NOTHING ELSE. Compassion? That's pure bullsh!t they sell to the doting liberal public. And the public eats it up because they want to feel good about themselves. But the politicians, either party, care about your vote and your money. Your life, health, and happiness are nothing to them. If you have no money and/or no vote, YOU mean nothing to them. That is why more than half of the alleged "Uncovered" will remain without coverage when and if this worst of all legislation passes.

They lie, you buy!

[Excaliber]

...care about your vote and your money.

Well they care about that, too.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I believe that is an absolutely false statement, all though it makes a great sound bite. Nor do I believe Health Care reform is about securing more votes or is even politically sound reasoning! It would be far more expediant to just leave it alone. So what IS the motivation? I think it stems from a sincere motivation to grant access to health care to a segment of the population that has been denied such coverage.

The Republicans and Democrats have attempted various reforms over the decades with some success and some failures. It is an extremely difficult issue to grapple with and no way will you keep all people happy all the time. It's an impossible task and this latest attempt at reform may ultimately fail to pass as well.

Flawed though it may be, I hope it does pass. We really do need to address the issue of to many American's being denied quality health care for one reason or another. THAT is simply not acceptable in a civilized society.

Your last paragraph is the total BS that the public has swallowed hook/line/sinker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one is denied health care for one reason or another that I know of,unless your counting people that can't afford it or people that would rather drive a new Escalade and watch television on their new 50" big screen tv than buy health insurance and then those very same people still have access to health care...........they are not being DENIED health care, they have chosen NOT to do whatever it takes to afford it,that's their choice,not mine.........

I chose to drive a Ford (8 to 10 years at a time) and watch tv on an old 32" "conventional" tv and go to work everyday,10 to 14 hours a day and HAVE health care........not rely on the goverberment to take care of me,while I sit home and eat and drink all day while watching the tv...............

Not sure about your neck of the woods, but in mine (Louisiana), we have a number of state/goverment run hospitals, we refer to as Charity Hospitals. Anyone can walk into one and get all the health care they need FREE of charge regarless of their financial well being 24/7.........There is also a law here that basically states anyone brought into or going into ANY hospital emergency room MUST be seen and given care/treatment until their condition is stable and they can be transfered to another hospital............

This I know for a fact, cause in Dec. of 08 I sat in the emergency room for 3 hours bleeding a nice puddle of blood on the floor while the waiting room was filled with welfare recipients with everything from a sore throat to a hang nail waiting to be seen and they were all seen and treated before me and I have health insurance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If someone can't afford health insurance, there ARE alternatives, like the ones I've mentioned and I truly feel sorry for them, but it's hard for me to feel sorry for anyone that drives a new Escalade and watchs tv on a new 50" LCD tv and sits home all day drinking and eating and is 150 pounds overwieght and then they complain about the lack of helath care avaliable to them.........

Now, your president wants to make sure these people have FREE health care when they have contributed nothing/nadda/zilch in the way of taxes or anything else to deserve the same or better health care that I pay dearly for every month and hope I never have to use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AT MY EXPENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but I just don't see things from your perspective.........

David

[Excaliber]

No one is denied health care for one reason or another...

Yeah, we here the line often repeated here on CC and elsewhere. It's verification of the arrogance those opposed to Health Care demonstrate continually.

You and many like you with that attitude don't have a clue about who and how people ARE DENIED health care. Frankly, I find it appalling, disgusting even, that folks can be so blind to the problem.

I could educate you on the issue, but I won't even waste my time. It's been covered here in the Lounge on numerous threads.

PS I hope when this passes the Gov taxes the heck out of you folks that "have yours" and could care less about the rest. I'm coming for your wallet and will be glad to clean it out!

[Excaliber]

OK my above rant is to harsh, maybe. This is a life and death issue for some people. not me personally, but for to many. People ARE DIEING RIGHT NOW or suffering right now because they lack adequate health care through no fault of their own.

The debate has been raging for some time now, these facts are clear. To say that people are all ready covered and we don't need to do anything is just unacceptable.

[csx4910]

If you think for one minute this bill will actually help those people you are sadly mistaken and have been riding that unicorn too long. #1 it will leave approx 24 million people without. # 2 most of those are illegal aliens so forgive the rest of us who dont want our tax dolalrs paying for an illegal alien to be able to take away insruance from someone else who deserves it. and #3 If you have ever had to work int eh health care system with federall funded Medicaid programs you would know what a mess they already are and how those people often still dont get the care they need because they dont go see their doctor or follow medical advice so magically giving more people health care doesnt neccessarily mean they will get care and the money that is going to be needed to really fudn this is double and triple what they are quoting.

[Excaliber]

Medicaid is essentially welfare. Those who are poor enough to qualify for it, all ready have it, this bill won't change that. Illegal aliens have access to emergency care all ready, this bill won't change that either.

There are two groups that have access to health insurance all ready, this bill won't stop them from receiving adequate health care. The very poor and those who can afford health care all ready.

In between are millions of regular hard working families and small business' that don't have access to decent health care for a variety of reasons. They make to much to qualify for Medicaid and not enough to purchase insurance in the private sector. So they wait, until their life threatening health crisis brings them to deaths door, until they have lost their job, their house, their family and spent all their assetts trying to survive. THEN they will qualify for Medicaid, a not a minute sooner.

If we do NOTHING that middle group who cannot afford decent health care will continue to grow larger. Health care costs will continue to go up. It's only a matter of time before many of those crying and whining about what it may cost them in tax dollars will be joining that middle group.

The Republican and Democrat parties alike recognize that SOMETHING has to be done. I'm still waiting to hear the game plan from Republicans, if they would STFU for a minute, quit whining and crying about it all maybe they could actually come up with a game plan? Some positive suggestion? Something besides "sit, wait, not now, not us, let's think about it some more." Times up, time to move on, time to get it done, with or without them.

[Jamo]

"already"...you are welcome

[fastd]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

OK my above rant is to harsh, maybe. This is a life and death issue for some people. not me personally, but for to many. People ARE DIEING RIGHT NOW or suffering right now because they lack adequate health care through no fault of their own.

The debate has been raging for some time now, these facts are clear. To say that people are all ready covered and we don't need to do anything is just unacceptable.

People are dying right now? They are going to be dying for at least another 4 years under the current proposal.

Your rant reveals way too much about how you really think...

[95CobraR]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I think it stems from a sincere motivation to grant access to health care to a segment of the population that has been denied such coverage.

Flawed though it may be, I hope it does pass. We really do need to address the issue of to many American's being denied quality health care for one reason or another. THAT is simply not acceptable in a civilized society.

I am not sure where you live, but I am sure it is in a liberal region of the country. Are your citizens falling over dead every day because they are denied medical care? I can promise that no one in Georgia is denied health care.

Social Security and Medicare is so well managed by the federal government; it is underfunded by ~$10 trillion. The Post Office is so well run for parcel delivery that two companies (UPS and FedEx) have grown into huge companies.

Passage of the health-care bill will be, for the administration, a catastrophic victory. If it is voted through in time for the State of the Union Address, as President Obama hopes, half the chamber will rise to their feet and cheer. They will be cheering their own demise.

If health care does not pass, it will also be a disaster, but only for the administration, not the country. Critics will say, "You didn't even waste our time successfully."

What a blunder this thing has been, win or lose, what a miscalculation on the part of the president. The administration misjudged the mood and the moment. Mr. Obama ran, won, was sworn in and began his work under the spirit of 2008—expansive, part dreamy and part hubristic. But as soon as he was inaugurated ,the president ran into the spirit of 2009—more dug in, more anxious, more bottom-line—and didn't notice. At the exact moment the public was announcing it worried about jobs first and debt and deficits second, the administration decided to devote its first year to health care, which no one was talking about. The great recession changed everything, but not right away.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000...673362182.html

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Yeah, we here the line often repeated here on CC and elsewhere. It's verification of the arrogance those opposed to Health Care demonstrate continually.

You and many like you with that attitude don't have a clue about who and how people ARE DENIED health care. Frankly, I find it appalling, disgusting even, that folks can be so blind to the problem.

I could educate you on the issue, but I won't even waste my time. It's been covered here in the Lounge on numerous threads.

PS I hope when this passes the Gov taxes the heck out of you folks that "have yours" and could care less about the rest. I'm coming for your wallet and will be glad to clean it out!

The simple explanation is that you have swallowed the bullsh!t propaganda that those that wish to control health care are selling.

If that 'middle group' had no access to health care.
1. This bill leaves the bulk of them still without access, but 1. is not a problem because that group is imaginary.
2. If that imaginary group was dying "right now" as claimed, then they have been dying "right now" for 100 years and yet there are now 47 million of them. To borrow from another thread, more mathturbation.

And most of all, the 'poor' and 'near poor' CANNOT be helped. They are solely responsible for their own position in life and all the world's compassion will not and cannot help them. The USofA has always been the land of opportunity for all. But ALL do not take advantage of that opportunity, nor do all WISH to take advantage of that opportunity.
We have coddled the "poor" for 50 plus years, resulting in the growth of the "poor class." And the absolute waste of Trillions of dollars.
I am 100% FOR giving a TEMPORARY hand up out of a TEMPORARY bad situation. But supporting one group from the cradle to the grave at the expense of a productive group only insures the non-productive group will stay non-productive and be a drag on the finest in our society.


And lastly, this health INSURANCE bill does NOTHING but transfer regulation of insurance from the States to the Federal Government. Insurance is presently heavily regulated by tens of thousands of pages of State Regulations, adding a couple of thousand pages of Federal Regs WILL NOT be any improvement at all. But it will increase costs putting insurance further out of reach of those it's supposed to help.

[Excaliber]

already, dang, makes mental note, single L.

no one in Georgia is denied health care.

There is no question there are people in Georgia who ARE dieing and suffering right now because of limited or no access to health care. Your statement reveals how little you understand of the problem these and many other people across this nation face.

dying for at least another 4 years under the current proposal.

A misconception that nothing happens with the Health Care reform for years. Some items begin immediately some are phased in over time. Another often used misconception is we will be paying taxes immediately and yet receive no benefits for four years. Same thing, it will be phased in. Would you rather wait another decade or century rather than four years?

[Excaliber]

The poor and near poor we are already helping, it's called Medicaid.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

There is no question there are people in Georgia who ARE dieing and suffering right now because of limited or no access to health care.



Would you rather wait another decade or century rather than four years?

1. dying
2. If not longer.Maybe by then the herd will be culled enough to not need this new welfare giveaway.