Hospitals / Doctors now refusing to take Medicare

[Excaliber]

Bush tried and failed to reform health care, as have many before him. We have only two options.

Do SOMETHING! Or continue to sit on it and wait for it to blow up. "Tweaking" is not an option, it will only delay the inevitable.

[Ron61]

If this bill was really reform then it wouldn't have so much opposition. Destroying the Health System is not going to help, it is just speeding up the inevitable. It does need work, but this disaster is not going to help anyone but a few in power. If it was so good, he wouldn't have had to buy so many votes to get it to where it is. By the time he buys enough votes to pass it, the Govt. will be so far down the tubes nothing will help the country and Health care will be the least of anyone's worries.

Ron

[Excaliber]

...is not going to help anyone but a few in power.

Uh, what about the 20 million, more or less, folks that have no or limited access to health care this bill will also help, beside those few in power?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Bush tried and failed to reform health care, as have many before him.

know why?????? Democratically controlled congress would not pass ANY health care reform!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the president alone can not pass anything, congress does that..............

Blah, blah , blah, like I said, back to Government bashing, it's what we do best.

So YOU have never bashed the previous administrations????????

Regarless who would be sitting in the White House right now, be it OB, George Wasghington or Abe Lincoln, THIS goverment run health care thing is GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As you do so well, when you can't answer anyone's logical post, you simply change the subject and skirt the issues at hand......
Go talk to a foreign born doctor,talk to someone in Canada and ask them about their fine health care that is run by their goverment and then come talk to me, otherwise, trying to have any reasonable dialog with you is a total waste of my time as your mind has been made up and NO amount of realllllllllll proof will change your mind.....

I think it's time you turn off your computer and get back to the commune for the daily Kumbaya singing.........

David

[Ron61]

Uh, what about the 20 million, more or less, folks that have no or limited access to health care this bill will also help, beside those few in power?

They will still have nothing and the few in power will be wealthier. If this bill was so great the politicians would be runing all over themselvesto make sure they got on it.

Ron

[Excaliber]

...answer anyone's logical post

Those have been few and far between and your not helping with the numbers David.

The "garbage" here is that so many are so willing to ignore those with so little. Those 20 milion or so, are you neighbors.

I think Ron is onto something,,,

[Excaliber]

Democratically controlled congress would not pass ANY health care reform

under Bush.

What a load of BS, your a real funny guy.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

The "garbage" here is that so many are so willing to ignore those with so little. Those 20 milion or so, are you neighbors.

Maybe you ought to move to a better neighborhood.

[Excaliber]

I just did, they are YOUR neighbors, not mine!

[Dan40]

The illogic, incoherent and false ramblings of the liberal "mind" are amazing to observe. Silly and laughable, but more amazing than anything else.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Dan40

The illogic, incoherent and false ramblings of the liberal "mind" are amazing to observe. Silly and laughable, but more amazing than anything else.

And that is why I officially just quit this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd have far more luck teaching a pig to fly than having any type of semi-intelligent conversation with our esteemed Ernie........

Bye-bye

David

[Excaliber]

...don't let the screen door hit your backside on the way out.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Anthony,

That was a good post and very enlightening. I hope that your brother does well.

Thank you. He's doing fine, but feeling very tired now, maybe from quitting smoking or the Beta-Blocker medication, nicotine withdrawls, I don't know, but I think he is going to be fine, just need some fine tuning.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I keep waiting for someone to mention there is no Government run health plan being discussed in the current health bill. Which may or may not even pass.

OK, with the out of the way, proceed with our regular program, Government health plan bashing.

In some extent, all of the current private healthcare plans are already government controlled. Basically, most, if not all, insurance carriers base their reimbursement rates to doctors and hospitals from the Medicare mandated reimbursement rates. Medicare has a "formula" to determine what each medical service is "worth" , to cover expenses and provide a "reasonable" profit, as determined by them, and all the insurance carriers are quick to jump on it, as they use this information as "ammunition" to justify their reimbursement rates. Medicare also determines which procedures are medically reasonable and necessary, again setting the standard for private insurance carriers to base their plans from. So, you see, the government for the most part sets the playing field already for everybody, insurance companies, doctors and hospitals. There however are some differences between insurance plans such as deductables, co-pays, some covered services, etc, but again, most of the plan is based off of Medicare standards.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Blah, blah , blah, like I said, back to Government bashing, it's what we do best.

Wages are down and REMAIN down for the bulk of the country. Business' are tightening their belts, sharpening their pencils, cutting costs. Health care facilities, doctors, hospital's are not immune to this trend. Figure out how to do it or like any business, face the inevitable consequences.

Eventually services and procedures will have to be cut. Waiting times will increase, it WILL happen, it's reality. It's the ONLY way to cut the ever rising costs. What part of that do you not understand or comprehend?

The main difference between the business of healthcare and the rest of the economy is that reimbursement rates (charges) are determined by the government, and not from supply and demand. As utility costs, rental costs, supply costs go up, medical providers cannot increase their reimbursements at all, as again, its government controlled. Unlike the dentist or veterinarian who can set their own charges, based on supply and demand, Hospitals and Doctors ( except plastic surgeons and opthmologists performing radial keratotomies,etc who can set their own charges) have to agree to accept whatever Medicare deems to be reasonable. The congress cuts pay to medical providers yet they give themselves raises. I believe that's why the Mayo clinic has decided to stop accepting medicare patients in Az, because of reduced reimbursements. I believe they are "testing the waters" to see how much this move will affect their business, bottom line, because medicare care is really a business afterall. If this test proves not to hurt the bottom line, then they may do the same at other clinics. It's all about money, like you said in the last paragraph. If the government cuts the money, there will be less sevices.

[Excaliber]

You know, I'm crazy about the idea of "less services", I just see it as inevitable as time goes forward. A kind of rich gets richer while poor gets poorer thing.

Those that can afford all the best care and those that cannot. Something's gotta give!

[csx4910]

Contrary to what the liberals would have us beelive, I dont recall anywhere in the consitution where it says Health care is one our our rights. Of those 20 Million people, it is estimated that at least 1/2 can afford health care but choose not to have it. Those would include(however Naive) those younger adults under the age of 30 in good health that dont want to pay for health care. This is America, isnt it? Shouldn't they have the right to choose what they feel is best for themselves, not the government? If Obama has his way, he wants everyone to let the government tell them what is best for them. I for one don't like the government telling me what is best for me. I already pay 100% of my employees health insurance and yet they plan on increasing taxes on business and make me also pay for others???

[Excaliber]

Actually it could be argued the constitution ALLOWS FOR such a law to be passed. It's an interesting constitutional law question. At this point, it's debatable and may face a constitutional challenge in a court of law. My opinion on that is that it stands a good chance of being found legal. Not from a Liberal view point mind you, but based on my personal research I come to that conclusion. There is no easy yes or no answer.

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by csx4910

Contrary to what the liberals would have us beelive, I dont recall anywhere in the consitution where it says Health care is one our our rights. Of those 20 Million people, it is estimated that at least 1/2 can afford health care but choose not to have it. Those would include(however Naive) those younger adults under the age of 30 in good health that dont want to pay for health care. This is America, isnt it? Shouldn't they have the right to choose what they feel is best for themselves, not the government? If Obama has his way, he wants everyone to let the government tell them what is best for them. I for one don't like the government telling me what is best for me. I already pay 100% of my employees health insurance and yet they plan on increasing taxes on business and make me also pay for others???

Ernie,

Please post the section of the Constitution that says the president and Congress can ignore the people and take over whenever they feel like it. I must have missed that in my reading.

Ron

[Excaliber]

That part is easy Ron, Government's been doing that since day 1. It's the "law of the land" not the "will of the people."

[Ron61]

Ernie,

Not quite since Day 1. George Washington never even asked to be paid for running the army in the Revolutionary War. All he asked for was reimbursement for what he had put out of his own money and he received that.

Is this Law Of The Land something like the Law Of The Jungle or is it a written law?

Ron

[Larry Spillman]

Ask your self what did the American people do to have our Govt treat us like the Enemy?? Nothing but allow them to do it. We watch TV and let the Govt run amock, They cant handel money they cant educate children the cant keep us well and the biggest failure may be that they cant protect us from outside or inside or country. GOOD LUCK AMERICA WE NEED IT>