Nascar: 2010

[Wayne Maybury]

Don

I wouldn't swear to it, but I think I heard that each pit crew consists of 18 members. There are 3 for each wheel, (one with the wrench, one for the tire coming off and one for the tire going on) plus a front and a rear jack man so that is 14 right there. They always have a couple of other guiys available to make minor adjustments or clear away debris, etc.

Wayne

[Don]

The USA Today version:

* March 28th @ Martinsville, spoiler start date

* " Shark fin " , see article

* Quote of the month from Robin Pemberton: " would ( the spoiler ) increase drag and reduce the speed during a spin, which is key to preventing liftoff "

* Reference to wind tunnel testing of a car backwards

http://www.usatoday.com/SPORTS/usaed...T_U.htm?csp=34

[Wayne Maybury]

Don I get the feeling that NASCAR is being very careful in how they comment on the spoiler versus the wing controversy. It seems like they do not want to appear to be admitting that they screwed up by going with the wing in the first place.

Wayne

[Ron61]

Wayne & Don,

I believe that with the current F1 set up, I would start on the hard compound tires while I had the weight to help with traction and then change to the softer compound after a certain amount of fuel was gone. You would be slower at the start than the ones on softer com[pounds, but they won't be as fast as they would with less weight and you could make up what you lost by staying out a few laps longer while they changed tires unless you were way behind.

As for the wing, I am happy to see it go. As someone stated in an earlier post, when they showed the wreck in slow motion you could see that wing kind of bend up which means it was lifting the car. Just sit next to a window over an airliner wing and watch it as they take off and climb. As for NASCAR admitting they made a mistake, never happen.

Ron

[Don]

From an interview @ Charlotte

Q: What do you think the chances, Martin, of you wearing white gloves in Bristol?

A: MARTIN TRUEX, JR.: No. I wear yellow ones

Mentioned earlier in this Thread, Edwards wearing white gloves which were visible on TV when he turned into Keselowski

[Don]

Wayne, regarding " NASCAR & The Wing " ( my quotes ) that you mentioned earlier. I do not recall when the wing was introduced if there was a very specific reason for a wing instead of a spoiler, other than the obvious attempt at straight line downforce. Just about every, if not 100%, of other race series uses wings, domestic or international, I think.

Not intended to be critical, but NASCAR's style of racing and the layout of tracks, along with close contact, which are strictly " racing incidents " , did not lend itself to the wing concept. Especially when the car gets sideways or is lifted off the track from unintentional contact.

Do not recall the exact numbers, but mentioned was a jet airliner achieves lift at approx 150 MPH

A few posts back I mentioned the cars with the wings are being tested in the wind tunnel , backwards. Would be informative to view these findings. An unknown is if the backward wind tunnel testing had been done prior to the introduction of the wing.

McLaren in F1 for 2010 is now channelling air thru the car and exiting over the top of the wing, driver controlled, appears other Teams will do the same. F1 also uses the shark fin concept that NASCAR will adopt.

[Wayne Maybury]

Ron
23 out of 24 cars in the Bahrain F1 race started on the harder tires. The problem with the softer tire is that while it does give better grip, it wears out more quickly. By starting on the harder tires and of course a full load of fuel, the thinking was that they could continue to run much deeper into the race and have more options as to when they would choose to pit.

By starting on the soft tires, they would have to pit earlier when it may not really be to their advantage. While the pit stop itself only takes 3 seconds, they estimate that the car loses about 20 seconds total time. Pitting early will mean losing several spots but pitting later in the race could possibly mean not losing a spot at all since the cars are more strung out. Finishing on soft tires and a light fuel load would also allow for very fast lap times at the end of the race when it is critical.

Don
Many F1 teams began to use that fin from the airbox inlet to the rear wing last year. The idea in F1 was to keep the air moving smoothly towards the wing by reducing turbulance.

As far as McLaren's new air inlet allowing air to pass through the cockpit before exiting in front of the wing, I heard that the idea was to disrupt the air flow over the wing on high speed straightaways thereby reducing downforce and more importantly, reducing drag at the same time. The airflow would be interupted by the driver pressing on some sort of air bag device with his knee, when downforce was required at lower speeds. Very innovative but the other teams all claim that it is illegal just like they did with Brawn's diffuser setup last year. F1 teams are always pushing the limits.

Wayne

[Don]

.....ought to be interesting for Sunday's race @ Bristol

Brad Keselowski has selected Tom Petty's song " I Won't Back Down " for his introduction.

No mention of Carl Edwards' having chosen a song . Any creative suggestions ?

" Of course, there's nowhere to hide at Bristol. It's a high-banked, half-mile bullring where even the most routine pass often becomes a multitry adventure. It's almost guaranteed that Edwards and Keselowski will find themselves side-by-side or bumper-to-bumper during Saturday's 250 laps and Sunday's 500. And it's almost inevitable that at some point during the weekend, one will try to pass the other, either for position or while overlapping.

And those moments are why the track in eastern Tennessee will attract upwards of 135,000 fans on Sunday afternoon. "

[Don]

Wayne, fyi, a very informative article:

" With the start of the Formula One season upon us, all eyes are on McLaren and its drivers, reigning world champion Jenson Button and former world champion Lewis Hamilton. But the attention isn’t exclusively on the champs. Everyone’s talking about the creative aerodynamics of the MP4-25 cars they’re driving.

Nobody outside the team is sure of specific details, but an ingeniously simple system allows Button and Hamilton to control the amount of downforce generated by the rear wing during the race. The wing has generated howls of protest, but the rulemakers at the Fédération Internationale d l’Automobile have approved it, so the cars are set to race Sunday in Bahrain. "

Complete Article:

McLaren Cribs From Planes, Flutes to Build Faster F1 Cars

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/mclaren-rear-wing/

[Wayne Maybury]

Don that is a really interesting article on what McLaren is doing and how it works.

The race at Bristol yesterday turned out to be very clean even when Carl was passing BK. Of course I was surprised to see JJ shoot to the lead with 2 laps to go when he really wasn't a factor all day long. Too bad that Mark Martin got taken out as he had a fast car.

Am I the only one to notice so many empty seats at Bristol? I think that NASCAR is going to be telling the race tracks that they must paint the seats various random colors so that it is not so obvious to the TV viewers that entire sections are empty.

Wayne

[Ron61]

Wayne,

The first thing I looked for when they came on the air was to see if they had a big crowd and the whole back grandstands were almost empty. Even DW commented on the fact there aren't many perople in the back stands but boy look at the crowd in the front ones. NASCAR has already had some of the tracks remove seats and widen the ones left to make it look as if they had a larger crowd than they do. Maybe when the economy picks up there will be more, but I don't think we will ever see NASCAR filling the stands every race again.

As for JJ winning, I wasn't surprised as he took care of his car all day and was fast on short runs. I thought that Bush had the best car on the long runs.

Ron

[Joe Wicked]

Even though I am a JJ fan, it was kind of sad to see the dejection in Kurt Busch. His comment almost sounded like he was beginning to believe that he cannot beat JJ. I hope that is not how many feel because even though I am a fan, that will make for some boring races or some intentional wrecks to keep him from winning. I don't want to see either. JJ move at the restart into turn 1 won him the race. The door was slammed on Kurt before he could do the same. Had there been 10-15 more laps, I think he would have gotten around Stewart and challenged for the win.

I did also wonder yesterday what will happen when Chad moves on? Will JJ be as dominant? Look at how good Jeff Gordon was when Ray Evernham was his CC. After he left, Jeff became just one of the other racers. I believe it is a perfect pairing that either with a different partner would not do as well.

I will say that so far this year the racing has been a bit better than in the last couple, but not yet up to where it was when I got hooked.

[Ron61]

Joe,

I agree with you that the racing is somewhat better than in the past year or so but still not nearly up to what it used to be. Next week should be interesting as that will be the return of the spoiler.

As for JJ being as good without Chad, that is questionable. Right now they have about as perfect a match as you can get. And after Ray left Jeff Gordon he won the first race or two, but it was with set ups that Evernham had already laid out. I just don't think that Lomis, (spelling), is all that great as a CC for Gordon.

Ron

[Don]

Another perspective:

*** Bristol with 150,000+ seating capacity, " If " 80 + or - % filled = 120,00 + or - attending. The average attendance per game at other sporting events:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...sports_leagues

*** Is it the racing, or the economy, or a combination of both ? Until there is a sustained economic recovery with unemployment below 5 % rather than 9.8 % , minimal foreclosures/bankruptcy/use of food stamps and growth in the business/industrial base for taxes, the impact of contributing factors regarding track attendance ?

Seems the infield/outfield RV spaces continue to do well. While still a challenge at the Sprint Cup level, but there are sponsors, i.e. the 2010 Census commenting on the needed exposure it received for NASCAR advertising, must be good if the US Gov does it...........( smile )

To me, a better indicator at year end will be the TV ratings for the entire season , compared to both last year and the peak years, will there be the start of a positive trend ? Then, look at the non-racing factors for track attendance. The best seats @ New Hampshire Speedway remain at $110/ea, still surprised at the number of families attending in 2009 not considering food, travel and sometimes the lodging cost.

[Don]

Correction:

Fox mentioned the seating capacity at Bristol is 158,000 with 20% empty, 127, 000 attending, first non sell out in 55 races

What's better, the above or 100% attending at a 60-80,000 capacity ?

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Joe,
As for JJ being as good without Chad, that is questionable. Right now they have about as perfect a match as you can get. And after Ray left Jeff Gordon he won the first race or two, but it was with set ups that Evernham had already laid out. I just don't think that Lomis, (spelling), is all that great as a CC for Gordon.

Loomis is gone too now. I just think it is a perfect pair that complement each other quite well and make a good team. I also think that Chad will be offered a higher position in Hendrick before too much longer just based on his skill. That will mean a new CC for Jimmy and I, like you question whether the streak will continue. I just hope that the other drivers are not throwing in the towel already for the season mentally. Generally speaking people will think something for a while before they speak it and now Kurt Busch has spoke his frustrations on the 48 team winning again. 8th year and already his 50th win is big though.

[Ron61]

Joe,

I even heard Jeff Gordon say in a moment of frustration that all the rest of them were racing for was 2nd place any more. Having JJ win all the time is going to be another blow to NASCAR as fans are starting to watch other things on TV as well as not going to the track because they just figure he is going to win so why waste time watching. It was about the same back when Jeff was winning so many races and people were booing him all the time. The main difference is they kept gaining fans and the fans kept waiting for his winning streak to end. Also I am tired of the interviews as they sound pre memorized and have about all the interest of watching a weed grow. That just naming every sponsor on the car and the fear of showing any emotion if they are mad is hurting NASCAR also. They have just about regulated themselves out of the main stream interest in racing with their PC crap.

Ron

[Wayne Maybury]

One good thing about JJ is that at least he isn't driving a car with "Toyota" written all over it.

I notice that even some of the top fuel dragsters have "Toyota" stickers on them now.

Wayne

[Ron61]

Wayne,

All types of racing is hunting for any sponsor they can get. Just wait until they recall all of the dragsters for quick acceleration.

Ron

[Don]

Initial reports from the spoiler test at Charlotte as mentioned by the drivers is positive, minimal or no impact on handling characteristics that they would have to adapt to. What did change with the increase drag on the straights reducing the speed. The next series of races will be a good indication when the qualifying speeds are compared to last years speeds with wings, especially at the 1.5+ mile tracks.

Did not save, but a Ford aerodynamics engineer mentioned that contrary to common thinking, the wing had minimal impact on the cars becoming airborne.

The May edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a layman's explanation: " Wing It Proven Aero Methods " . Five page article written by a Toyota aerodynamics engineer. The word spoiler is mentioned a few times, but the article is primarily regarding wings, splitters, drag, downforce, aero wake, frontal area, ducts, suspension movement, car design, under car air flow, etc along with maintaining overall balance on the numerous factors.