I guess it's a "Cultural" thing !!!

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by VRM

I'm glad you went and did some follow-up research - maybe next time you will do it BEFORE posting the spam of the day.

If people stopped reposting crud from the flood that pours into their inboxes from other people reposting crud that flooded into THEIR inboxes (repeat as many times as you like), the contents of the internet would fit on a single floppy disc.

I find it amazing how often a thread like this can go on and on and on before someone simply looks up a fact that counters the entire point of the discussion. As you say, simply posting 'something' that 'someone' sent you 'because it was interesting' is rarely a service to anyone downstream.

Haiti is near-hopeless for so many reasons it's hard to count them all. The damage done by centuries of misrule and abuse of the population and resources may not be un-doable by any reasonable effort. Certainly the efforts of my great-uncle, who has spent nearly 50 years there teaching and organizing communities, hasn't made much of a dent.

[CobraEd]

of course I own it, . . . why wouldn't I ?????

The reason for the mad face is for the reason I clearly stated: "except for pouring in all that money all those years"


.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

of course I own it, . . . why wouldn't I ?????

The reason for the mad face is for the reason I clearly stated: "except for pouring in all that money all those years"


.

So then what is the 'cultural' thing?

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by VRM

So then what is the 'cultural' thing?

You don't recognize a code word when you see it?

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Gunner

You don't recognize a code word when you see it?

Sure I do. I just want to know if he is man enough to say in plain English what he is insinuating with pseudo-PC code words.

We have sent money and support to Haiti in the past because it was in our own interests to do so - even though the results backfired (something that usually happens).
I wonder if we are capable as a people of sending money and support because it is the humanitarian thing to do.

Steve

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by VRM

Sure I do. I just want to know if he is man enough to say in plain English what he is insinuating with pseudo-PC code words.

We have sent money and support to Haiti in the past because it was in our own interests to do so - even though the results backfired (something that usually happens).
I wonder if we are capable as a people of sending money and support because it is the humanitarian thing to do.

Steve

As soon as I saw what happened in Haiti on tv, I told my wife that we needed to help. I immediately got on the Red Cross Web site and donated A LOT of money to the Hatian relief fund because it was in the best interest of my fellow human beings over there. I did not send the money because "it was in our own interests to do so" as you do.

Be a man and stop your girlish whining. What I posted is 100% correct and is substantiated by the post by Razor where more words and details are used but say the exact same thing!

I am tired of this immaturity. Not only will I not post on this thread anymore, I will not bother to even read it.

It is pointless!



.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

It is pointless!

.

Good - so it ends in the same spirit in which it was started.

Steve

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by VRM

We have sent money and support to Haiti in the past because it was in our own interests to do so - even though the results backfired (something that usually happens).
I wonder if we are capable as a people of sending money and support because it is the humanitarian thing to do.

I think a lot of our past support has been as much for humanitarian reasons as for self-serving ones. It can be difficult to distinguish between the two and it's easy (especially in this era) to find cynical interpretations of financial and other contributions to such a lost cause... but yes, I think that the US has good intentions, separated as much as they can be from national self-interest.

If Haiti had ANY real value to us, we'd have gone in with military force and stayed there until the situation was stable. Haiti, unfortunately, has no value to anyone including most of its own population, so we avoid the complications of full engagement and try to make money do something for us instead.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

What I posted is 100% correct and is substantiated by the post by Razor where more words and details are used but say the exact same thing!

Bull phucking $hit.

What you posted is NOT 100% correct. It is a chronicle of events misrepresented into a context contrived to support a distorted agenda. Outside of the kind, appreciated and genuine humanitarian aid from the US and around the world at times when Haiti was struck by hurricanes and this recent earthquake, every red bloody cent chronicled on your list of money spent on the poor starving people of Haiti was spent to serve the US's interests in the region.

You see what you want to see in Razor's post and filter out the rest, but if you really care to know the truth, you'll learn that after collaborating with the European colonial powers to grind the Haitian economy into the dirt, the prospect of first the Germans and later the Soviet communists coming to their rescue and securing a strategic base near the all important Panama canal, motivated the US to consolidate its influence through occupation, infrastructural development and support of despotic regimes.

Cuba would have suffered the same fate under the embargo, were it not for the Soviet support (they had their own self-serving agenda too) and the the patriotic will of the Cuban people to persevere no matter what. F-ck you and your elitist judgementalism. Clearly you don't care to expand your knowledge beyond the orchestrated pablum you choose to accept as historical fact.

If it weren't for the reality that they need it so badly regardless of the spirit in which it is given, I'd even go as far as to tell you to take your claimed charitable donation to Haiti, roll it up and stuff it up your arse; because people like you give only to serve your own sense of benevolence and self righteousness. The obvious disdain in which you hold the brutal, murderous and ungrateful people of Haiti gives your "gift of kindness" a bitter taste and in reality is given only to buy yourself the opportunity to crow down at them from a position of self percieved moral and "cultural" superiority.

[RAZOR]

A little more of Haiti's history


Haiti’s Troubled Background:
Since gaining independence from France in a bloody rebellion in 1804, Haiti had gone through a succession of dictators. By the early twentieth century, the population was uneducated, poor and hungry. The only cash crop was coffee, grown on some sparse bushes in the mountains. In 1908, the country totally broke down. Regional warlords and militias known as cacos fought in the streets. Between 1908 and 1915 no less than seven men seized the presidency and most of them met some sort of gruesome end: one was hacked to pieces in the street, another killed by a bomb and yet another was probably poisoned.
The United States and the Caribbean:
Meanwhile, the United States was expanding its sphere of influence in the Caribbean. In 1898, it had won Cuba and Puerto Rico from Spain in the Spanish-American War: Cuba was granted freedom but Puerto Rico was not. The Panama Canal opened in 1914: the United States had invested heavily in building it and had even gone to great pains to separate Panama from Colombia in order to be able to administer it. The strategic value of the canal, both economically and militarily, was enormous. In 1914, the United States had also been meddling in the Dominican Republic, which shares the island of Hispaniola with Haiti.
Haiti in 1915:
Europe was at war and Germany was faring well. President Woodrow Wilson feared that Germany might invade Haiti in order to establish a military base there: a base that would be very close to the precious Canal. He had a right to worry: there were many German settlers in Haiti who had financed the rampaging cacos with loans that would never be repaid and they were begging Germany to invade and restore order. In February of 1915, pro-US strongman Jean Vilbrun Guillaume Sam seized power and for a while it seemed that he would be able to look after US military and economic interests.
The US Seizes Control:
In July of 1915, however, Sam ordered a massacre of 167 political prisoners and he was himself lynched by an angry mob that broke into the French Embassy to get at him. Fearing that anti-US caco leader Rosalvo Bobo might take over, Wilson ordered an invasion. The invasion came as no surprise: American warships had been in Haitian waters for most of 1914 and 1915 and American Admiral William B. Caperton had been keeping a close eye on events. The marines that stormed the shores of Haiti were met with relief rather than resistance and an interim government was soon set up.
Haiti Under US Control:
Americans were put in charge of public works, agriculture, health, customs and the police. General Philippe Sudre Dartiguenave was made president in spite of popular support for Bobo. A new Constitution, prepared in the United States, was pushed through a reluctant Congress: according to a debated report, the author of the document was none other than a young Assistant Secretary of the Navy named Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The most interesting inclusion in the constitution was the right of whites to own land, which had not been permitted since the days of French colonial rule.
Unhappy Haiti:
Although the violence had ceased and order had been restored, most Haitians did not approve of the occupation. They wanted Bobo as president, resented the Americans’ high-handed attitude towards the reforms and were indignant about a Constitution that was not written by Haitians. The Americans managed to irk every social class in Haiti: the poor were forced to work building roads, the patriotic middle class resented the foreigners and the elite upper class was mad that the Americans did away with the corruption in government spending that had previously made them rich.
The Americans Depart:
Meanwhile, back in the United States, the Great Depression hit and citizens began wondering why the government was spending so much money to occupy an unhappy Haiti. In 1930, President Hoover sent a delegation to meet with President Louis Borno (who had succeeded Sudre Dartiguenave in 1922). It was decided to hold new elections and begin the process of withdrawing American forces and administrators. Sténio Vincent was elected president and the removal of the Americans began. The last of the American Marines left in 1934. A small American delegation remained in Haiti until 1941 to defend American economic interests.
Legacy of the American Occupation:
For a while, the order established by the Americans lasted in Haiti. The capable Vincent remained in power until 1941, when he resigned and left Elie Lescot in power. By 1946 Lescot was overthrown. This marked the return to chaos for Haiti until 1957 when they tyrannical François Duvalier took over, beginning a decades-long reign of terror.

Although the Haitians resented their presence, the Americans accomplished quite a bit in Haiti during their 19-year occupation, including many new schools, roads, lighthouses, piers, irrigation and agricultural projects and more. The Americans also trained the Garde D'Haiti, a national police force that became an important political force once the Americans left.

Haiti’s Troubled Background:
Since gaining independence from France in a bloody rebellion in 1804, Haiti had gone through a succession of dictators. By the early twentieth century, the population was uneducated, poor and hungry. The only cash crop was coffee, grown on some sparse bushes in the mountains. In 1908, the country totally broke down. Regional warlords and militias known as cacos fought in the streets. Between 1908 and 1915 no less than seven men seized the presidency and most of them met some sort of gruesome end: one was hacked to pieces in the street, another killed by a bomb and yet another was probably poisoned.
The United States and the Caribbean:
Meanwhile, the United States was expanding its sphere of influence in the Caribbean. In 1898, it had won Cuba and Puerto Rico from Spain in the Spanish-American War: Cuba was granted freedom but Puerto Rico was not. The Panama Canal opened in 1914: the United States had invested heavily in building it and had even gone to great pains to separate Panama from Colombia in order to be able to administer it. The strategic value of the canal, both economically and militarily, was enormous. In 1914, the United States had also been meddling in the Dominican Republic, which shares the island of Hispaniola with Haiti.
Haiti in 1915:
Europe was at war and Germany was faring well. President Woodrow Wilson feared that Germany might invade Haiti in order to establish a military base there: a base that would be very close to the precious Canal. He had a right to worry: there were many German settlers in Haiti who had financed the rampaging cacos with loans that would never be repaid and they were begging Germany to invade and restore order. In February of 1915, pro-US strongman Jean Vilbrun Guillaume Sam seized power and for a while it seemed that he would be able to look after US military and economic interests.
The US Seizes Control:
In July of 1915, however, Sam ordered a massacre of 167 political prisoners and he was himself lynched by an angry mob that broke into the French Embassy to get at him. Fearing that anti-US caco leader Rosalvo Bobo might take over, Wilson ordered an invasion. The invasion came as no surprise: American warships had been in Haitian waters for most of 1914 and 1915 and American Admiral William B. Caperton had been keeping a close eye on events. The marines that stormed the shores of Haiti were met with relief rather than resistance and an interim government was soon set up.
Haiti Under US Control:
Americans were put in charge of public works, agriculture, health, customs and the police. General Philippe Sudre Dartiguenave was made president in spite of popular support for Bobo. A new Constitution, prepared in the United States, was pushed through a reluctant Congress: according to a debated report, the author of the document was none other than a young Assistant Secretary of the Navy named Franklin Delano Roosevelt. The most interesting inclusion in the constitution was the right of whites to own land, which had not been permitted since the days of French colonial rule.
Unhappy Haiti:
Although the violence had ceased and order had been restored, most Haitians did not approve of the occupation. They wanted Bobo as president, resented the Americans’ high-handed attitude towards the reforms and were indignant about a Constitution that was not written by Haitians. The Americans managed to irk every social class in Haiti: the poor were forced to work building roads, the patriotic middle class resented the foreigners and the elite upper class was mad that the Americans did away with the corruption in government spending that had previously made them rich.
The Americans Depart:
Meanwhile, back in the United States, the Great Depression hit and citizens began wondering why the government was spending so much money to occupy an unhappy Haiti. In 1930, President Hoover sent a delegation to meet with President Louis Borno (who had succeeded Sudre Dartiguenave in 1922). It was decided to hold new elections and begin the process of withdrawing American forces and administrators. Sténio Vincent was elected president and the removal of the Americans began. The last of the American Marines left in 1934. A small American delegation remained in Haiti until 1941 to defend American economic interests.
Legacy of the American Occupation:
For a while, the order established by the Americans lasted in Haiti. The capable Vincent remained in power until 1941, when he resigned and left Elie Lescot in power. By 1946 Lescot was overthrown. This marked the return to chaos for Haiti until 1957 when they tyrannical François Duvalier took over, beginning a decades-long reign of terror.

Although the Haitians resented their presence, the Americans accomplished quite a bit in Haiti during their 19-year occupation, including many new schools, roads, lighthouses, piers, irrigation and agricultural projects and more. The Americans also trained the Garde D'Haiti, a national police force that became an important political force once the Americans left.
Source:Herring,Hubert. A History of Latin America from the beginning to the Present.