http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,275267,00.html

Since increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide levels allegedly are causing global warming, the new study must mean that global temperatures are soaring even faster now than they did during the 1990s, right?

Wrong, according to the most recent data from the U.S. Department of Commerce’s National Climatic Data Center.

By overlaying the atmospheric carbon dioxide trend onto graphs of near-surface temperatures, surface temperatures and ocean temperatures, it is readily apparent that ever-changing global temperatures aren’t keeping pace with ever-increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide levels.

Why is Mars experiencing a similar "global warming" crisis?

Mike

if this rhetorical, I apologize.

"Since increased sunspot activity is correlated with higher solar energy output it is possible that Earth climate temperatures in recent decades have been higher due to increased solar radiation hitting the Earth.

Because the brightness of the Sun varies slightly with solar activity, the new reconstruction indicates also that the Sun shines somewhat brighter today than in the 8,000 years before. Whether this effect could have provided a significant contribution to the global warming of the Earth during the last century is an open question. The researchers around Sami K. Solanki stress the fact that solar activity has remained on a roughly constant (high) level since about 1980 - apart from the variations due to the 11-year cycle - while the global temperature has experienced a strong further increase during that time. On the other hand, the rather similar trends of solar activity and terrestrial temperature during the last centuries (with the notable exception of the last 20 years) indicates that the relation between the Sun and climate remains a challenge for further research.

We are in an unusually long period of increased Solar activity. So an eventual decline seems highly likely. What we do not know is what will happen to Earth's climate when the Sun's output finally does decline. Depending on how far it declines cooling could become a bigger risk than warming. But we can't predict whether that will be the case. But human technology will advance so far in the next few decades that large scale climate engineering to cancel out either a warming or a cooling will become feasible. So either way I do not think we need to be deeply concerned in the short run."

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002432.html

So what you are saying is the last 50 or so major climate shifts were (possibly) due to solar fluctuations, but maybe the one we are experiencing now is due to human activities? Still, not sure how that jives with what is happening on Mars...less of course, I missed my own point.

Mike

I think I agree with your own point. I am just used to not being listening to, so I thought I would 'quote' a pundit.

interesting 'points' by this article...
verifiable increased solar activity.....

the rest of it is laughable.....
more research?.... ever stand in front of a hot oven door when it is opened?
eventual decline? .... well what IF it continues to get hotter?
large scale climate engineering? .... HAARP? oh come ON, they have been doing it for years...

I bet this guy is probably a Chief of Staff adviser.


I really find the simplistic answers to complex systems unnerving. It is a chaotic process which any action may or may not have lasting or catastrophic results.

I remember the great sunsets from Mount Pinatubo from my backyard in CA. I watched the press in FL talk about the great sunsets from a couple of years ago from the winds in Africa. I wonder why the environmentalists didn't rejoice at the hanging of Hussein considering the amount of offsets he would have needed from all the wells needlessly set on fire. Do you think CA's switching to fluorescents exclusively would really make a difference?

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?se...cal&id=5340438

oh yeah... the chaos starts...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...lights27.shtml

My neighbours kid was doing a project on the global warming and the fact that the ice was melting.

He said, "Dad if the ice is melting that means the sun is hot and the ice will evaporate, well how can the ocean levels rise?"

He's only 6 years old...:3DSMILE:

:eek:

Remember those that are scaring us about global warming are the same people/scientists that were scaring us about the big IT melt down on 01/01/2000 - 2YK...:LOL:

Not to quibble Bernie but those would have been computer scientists not enviromental scientists. Different animal.

This is a great point. There seems to be a greater emphasis on arguing that "we" are not to blame than on understanding what is going on with our climate. It is a very complex process, but the fact that our climate is changing is obvious. It doesn't matter what portion is due to human activity, it matters that we accept that it is happening and that we might be able to do something about it.

Andrew

Going to quibble here, the computer scientists of respect were telling us that there was no need to worry at that time. The politicians took the fear and created capital for themselves.

Now the "new" fear of global warming has created a perfect storm for politicians. They can build power and influence from fear by exaggerating the consequence's and encourage a tax on this worlds most abundant resource, carbon.

I need to change my byline to,

Global warming is not about heat, it is about taxes

Scott S

Mike,
I read some of the same things about Mars warming that you probably did. That little robot has done a lot of cool things for a lot longer than anyone expected it to.

The temp is rising in most locations. It could be caused by the same thing that is causing Mars to get warmer. We simply don't know. Until we do know it is stupid to assume that we can change it. However, it is also stupid to assume that we can't.

Until then, the old adage of don't poo where you eat should always apply.

Steve

For a moment, I thought we agreed. But then, your position leaves one very little room to be "smart".

As to aharris,
[i]This is a great point. There seems to be a greater emphasis on arguing that "we" are not to blame than on understanding what is going on with our climate. It is a very complex process, but the fact that our climate is changing is obvious. It doesn't matter what portion is due to human activity, it matters that we accept that it is happening and that we might be able to do something about it.[i]

I do accept the climate is changing!

The problem here in the states is that it is assumed by the radical left that it is all or mostly all due to human activity. This is not defensible. It is politically motivated. Me? I am all for greener, cleaner technology...but beware of anyone who pushes propositions that suggest a lessening of lifestyle and a more intrusive government.

I am also wary of the "we might be able to do something about it" crowd mentality. If we could, then we are initially responsible. And I am unwilling to accept that in light of the very long history of climate change that had nothing to due with humans, both here on Earth and on Mars.

There apear to be quite a large number of people who are buying into this. Thus, let them live like they want the rest of us to live. No AC, no cars, no planes, etc. Their actions ought to be enough to offset the "problem" (without getting governement to force the rest of us to follow suit). 2-3 billion people switching to a "third world" kind of lifestyle ought to do the trick! But, according to http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Facts.asp, 3 billion already live there.

Global warming and who is responsible is a vehical upon which the radical left is looking to use to "level" the playing field.

Mike

Mike,
Actually, the bit that you quoted from me leaves you all the room in between the two extremes to be smart.

As far as I am concerned, both of the two extremes are wrong, but everything in between (and there is a lot there) is up for grabs.

I have agreed with everything you have written so far except this one:

Global warming and who is responsible is a vehical upon which the radical left is looking to use to "level" the playing field.

I think it is more to gain some level of power in much the same way that the right uses the terror threat. Keep the sheep afraid of something and begging for protection.

Steve

:)

Actually the problem was plainly explained by an older lady I was behind in the grocery store the other day. She said that all the strange weather is because of airplanes and rockets and that people weren't meant to fly. Also that all people are to blame who drive cars or trucks as God never meant for us to travel in style. I foll lowed her out and she was parked right next to my car. And she was driving a SUV that could have passed for a small 18 wheeler. So much for the scientific explanation. :LOL:

Ron :JEKYLHYDE

At some point you have to leave the politics out of it. This is not a right vs left issue. The past five major climate changes have lead to mass extinctions on a scale we cannot comprehend. Humans may be one of those species.

We are a soft hairless vulnerable slug in the survival world. The only thing that keeps us on top of the pile is our large neocortex. But that only works if we can manipulate the environment around us.

This isn't about the GOP it's about survival.

A

Andrew,

Can you please give me a scientific explanation of how you would have stopped any one of these five using technology that is currently available to us.

Methinks you have a God complex.

Bernie

Ditto,

Wimp I am not.

Scott s

Global warming is a beautiful phenomenom. It will regulate the growth of the users - mainly us, the Chinese and the Indians. Humans will adapt to a new world just as they have for about four million years. Oh, there were a few setbacks - Attila, Hannibal, The Plague, Idi Amin, and Hitler to name a few.

Just move inland a coupla miles, maybe a little north of where you are now. (Our Australian, Kiwi, and South African friends should make that shift to the south.) Everyone will be fine, except those who won't adapt.

Enjoy your life. Reject anxiety caused by worrying about things you can't change. You certainly can't change the way people think (or don't think) judging by the evidence that people here used to form their conclusions.

Have a warm, sunny nice day.:cool:

B.

Can we alter the path of(let alone stop)a spring shower....NO
Can we stop a hurricane?............................NO
Can we stop a tornado?..............................NO
Can we alter the course of a snowstorm?.......NO
Can we predict earthquakes?.......................NO

But Al Gore & his minions want you to believe that we can change the climate of the WHOLE FRIGGIN' PLANET.

Thats right Cobrabill!

VRM, I agree with your notion...but I still think terror is real (9/11 happened, and a lot of events leading up to that).

aharris...what would you do? what are you doing RIGHT now to stop the mass extinction of humans?

Mike

Here is a thread that will get you some attention.

Go ahead, say what you really mean...don't hold back...let it all hang out.

:D

Mmmm Trularin

I'm watching..:LOL: