No Amnesty part 2

[VRM]

Mike, yep - I am shocked. But in a good way - glad to have you on this one.

I really wonder what is wrong with the laws that we already have defining the process and the penalties. The executive branch has the obligation to enforce the laws as passed by Congress. The existing structure in place to enforce the existing laws was obviously overwhelmed. So the way to fix this mess is to bolster the existing structure - more immigration officers, more border patrol, more fences (including the one that was never finished).

Clinton did some work on this - he had a 35% increase in border patrol between '92 and '96, and deported about 30K. During the tail end of his adminsitration the GOP Congress passed a few good improvements regarding immigration and border patrol. The laws stated that those improvements were to be completed by 2003. Even if Clinton did nothing during the rest of his presidency - Bush still had the obligation to enforce the law.

Ron, yep Bush does not give a dam about what we want because he owes more to those who financed him than the people who elected him.

Steve

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

Mike, yep - I am shocked. But in a good way - glad to have you on this one.

I really wonder what is wrong with the laws that we already have defining the process and the penalties. The executive branch has the obligation to enforce the laws as passed by Congress. The existing structure in place to enforce the existing laws was obviously overwhelmed. So the way to fix this mess is to bolster the existing structure - more immigration officers, more border patrol, more fences (including the one that was never finished).

Clinton did some work on this - he had a 35% increase in border patrol between '92 and '96, and deported about 30K. During the tail end of his adminsitration the GOP Congress passed a few good improvements regarding immigration and border patrol. The laws stated that those improvements were to be completed by 2003. Even if Clinton did nothing during the rest of his presidency - Bush still had the obligation to enforce the law.

Ron, yep Bush does not give a dam about what we want because he owes more to those who financed him than the people who elected him.

Steve

Hmmmm...so, using those numbers, how much of an increase to deport 12 million?

Taking a head count here...which of you has actually read the legislation rather than rely on talking heads and the print media? Anyone?

[VRM]

Jamo,
If we had actually been enforcing the existing laws as written then we would not be in the situation we are in now. And no - deporting all 12 million would be very difficult to do, but there are also ways to work around that without automatically giving citizenship. The voluntary departure bit in the bill is a start.

And yes, I have read the entire legislation. Would you like me to tell you where you can find it? How long do you think it is going to take to do background checks on 12M people? And what do they do in the meantime? And how much processing resources are being taken away from people in other countries who are trying to immigrate the legal way? The bill, as written, has holes big enouigh to drive a truck full of potential citizens through. Section 6 is especially galling.

If the person has to show work papers in order to get the 'amnesty', and pay the fines associated with his entry, does the employer also have to pay fines? I have seen nothing in the bill regarding that.

Steve

[Ron61]

I never read the whole bill back then but did read some of it. I am no expert by any means on this subject, but from what I can recall it seems to me that there could have been more done to enforce some of the existing laws and not just keep turning out new laws that they won't enforce either.

Ron

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Taking a head count here...which of you has actually read the legislation rather than rely on talking heads and the print media? Anyone?

I haven't read the legislation.

From the question,I take it that you have.
Even if you haven't read the whole thing,what is your take on this bill ?

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

I haven't read the legislation.

From the question,I take it that you have.
Even if you haven't read the whole thing,what is your take on this bill ?

Fred, I represent Western agricultural interests, so I've read every pre-bill draft and phuked up amendment for the past several years. My interest is obviously the AgJobs guest worker program, but I've had to deal with REAL immigration issues since before IRCA in the 80s in my work. Actually even before that...when I used to watch my Dad's tomato and grape crews run like he!! when the green cars would show up at the side of the fields/vineyards.

My take? I couldn't even begin. Personally, I don't like McCain-Kennedy and I don't want to see it passed, but for different reasons than the flash points mosts folks jump up and down about.