No Amnesty part 2

[Jamo]

If you understood what is required for an I-9 form, you would get it. You don't, so you don't.

Did you understand where I explained (several times now) that liberal/ACLU/Demos fight even having pics on a federal ID card?

Do you understand how they will fight like hell to keep employers from phukingfingerprinting their employees?

Do you understand anything about the real world?

If a person presents a document which proves his or her ID and his or her entitlement to work here, they are are done. That includes birth certificates, passports and a few other documents. Otherwise, you need to show an ID document (DL, etc.) and an entitlement document (SS card, etc.).

The current law allows the employee to choose what they want to present.

We need something which is:
1. Easy
2. Acceptable

A federal ID card with a pic (the SS card with a pic) does that. I don't have to line up 300 farmworkers on the first day of the harvest season in a dusty field and fingerprint them, which creates a chain of custody issue if they get smudged or mixed up (you don't deal with urine tests everyday for drug testing so you have no clue what I'm talking about). Cops take fingerprints...folks don't want their employers to be cops!

A SS card with a pic will be ample proof...the number can be checked within a day or two back at the office (real time in our world versus 6-8 months of delay now).

I really don't think you're stupid...I do think you are being stupid. If you rely on the NY Times for your truths, then you are lost.

I never said the SS database had never been breached...I said it hadn't under IMAGE. I did point out that credit card companies, such as Visa and Mastercard, already have access to it, and they have had their own systems swiss cheesed.

BTW, I have dumbed down my conversation over the past several pages in the hopes you would understand...evidently it has not worked. I moderated this site for several years on dialup and still only use a wireless card...folks get by with minimal technology just fine.

KISS

[VRM]

Jamo,
What about me saying that I agree with you regarding a Fed pic ID being a good idea do you disagree with?

I also agree that the I-9 is a problem as it currently is used, and I have no problem changing it. It certainly is way too open-ended as it is now. Hell, given a couple of days I could forge half the docs in columns B and C, and I'm only an amateur!

I also agree that a lot of people would fight a thumbprint (I am proposing only 1 digit - not a full set). And yes, it would be a pain in the ass for a farm, but not nearly so much for cleaning crews, packers/shippers, and construction workers (where the bulk of my experience with illegals comes from). Chain of evidence is not a problem as it is not actually evidence, merely records. The print would only be used to possibly indicate a situation that could be investigated further. The fingerprint could even serve as a psychological deterent to illegals. However, I fully admit that I had not considered your situation and experience regarding farms and the quantity of people hired at a single time. Obviously, you have not considered mine either.

You say that a photo SS card will be ample proof. Those could also be forged. There is a market right now for fake SS cards. If we go to photo SS cards there will be a market for fakes of those as well. Obviously, they will be a lot tougher to fake than the SS cards currently available. However, the fact that forgeries will happen should not deter us from going ahead with it anyway. But we should make every effort to pack as much anti-copy protection into a new SS card at the first issue. Simply checking the number, as you mentioned, is not enough of a safeguard. Other metrics need to be cross-referenced to that number in order to verify that the person with the card is actually the person assigned to that card. Perhaps if the GOP had made this an issue a few years ago they would have been able to push it through by waking up the public about this (as they are now) and scaring the DNC Congresscritters. They didn't - so now we are stuck with a DNC Congress doing what it wants. I know as well as you do that under them it simply will not happen.

Regarding the SSA hacking - I have mentioned GAO reports that say it is very possible (and some reports may even mention actual SSA hacks - I have only read a couple of the reports), and also referenced a specific article that says it has happened, but under what circumstances we do not know. You say it has not happened under IMAGE, fine, please cite your source. Otherwise, given the information that we have the probability that it happend under IMAGE is identical to it not happening under IMAGE.

I have dumbed down my posts to you as well. I don't understand how you can think that by increasing access to the SSA DB that you also don't increase the risk of hacking. By your reference to hacking not happening under IMAGE before you seem to think that therefore IMAGE is safe for all to use.

Ever do probability math? I'm going to keep this simple even though there are more variables than just the ones I am going to mention here.
Suppose you have 100 balls in a jar. 5 of those balls are white and the other 95 are black. The white balls represent the access points to the SSA DB, including those through IMAGE. Now you (the hacker) reach in blindfolded an pick out a ball. What are the chances of you pulling a white one? Now, imagine that the situation is switched, and the black balls represent access to the SSA DB. What is your chance of pulling a black ball?

The trophy hackers have probably already hacked the SSA DB. I'm not really worried about them. The ones looking for info/money/whatever are going to take the path of least resistance. Right now getting bulk SS#s is easier through CC companies and universities as 'easy' access is significantly less limited. That would change with the real-time access that you propose.

With your real-time access plan I could also create a simple program that would enter random SS#s into the employers PC, search the SSA DB, and record the results. I could then make fake photo SS cards with a slightly different (but close enough to pass muster for some who will only see a mid-30s Latino with black hair and brown eyes, for example) picture, but based on a real Fed issued card.

I can fully understand you shaking your head at me and wondering 'WTF?' trying to fingerprint people at a farm. Ok, I may have deserved that. Well, I'm doing the same thing at you. Your network plan is every IT guys worst nightmare. You actually made the hair on the back of my neck stand up when you first wrote that you wanted real-time access.

I think you would be very surprised at the level of technology I use in everyday life.

Steve