Israelis Bomb Nuke Site???

[rdorman]

The inspectors themselves reported that Saddam blocked and or hindered inpection attempts on dozens of occasions even going so far as to label them as spies and refusing access. Iraqs WMD program was greatly diminished in the 90's by somewhat successful programs but even on return this century inpectors reported finding dozens of weapons programs, just not the weapon themselves. Recently declassified NGIC report shows the discovery of approx 500 munitions that contain Mustard and Sarin nerve agents in a period from May '04 until June '06. There is a significant gap between what Iraq reported having, what UNSCOM was able to verify and what was destroyed. So, where did all those munitions go? Of course, I have already answered that question.

Either way, right or wrong, we are there and the Iraqi's need to get their $hit together and make their country work. I have no desire to stay in Iraq one day longer then we have to. I wish we where out already.

[REAL 1]

I'd rather go in and kick the Chit out of him and find out he had nothing then not kick the chit out of him and find out he did and then its too late.

He actually sent all his WMD to Syria. We'll find this to be true one day.

[VRM]

I disagree with the concept of Hussein sending any weapons to Iran or Syria. Iran and Syria both work together, but Hussein did not trust them. Hussein was a survivalist - he thought he had a good chance of getting through the invasion. It is not in his best interests to send off weapons of any kind to a country that was not friendly to him. In fact, Husseins biggest threat was Iran. We actually made Iran very happy because we removed that threat.
Hussein was not developing nuclear weapons. There were chemical weapons containers found, but all the chemical weapons had long expired, and were of no harm to anyone.
The Iraq Survey Group report also indicates that there is no evidence that any weapons were shipped to any other country. This report was created by people who work with evidence to reach conclusions, rather than gut feelings like our President does.

You guys are also forgetting one very important thing. The best quality chemical weapons only have a shelf life of 4-5 years. Any chemical weapons that were made brand new right before the invasion would turning into piles of useless goo right about now, and Husseins earlier home-grown chemical weapons were not very purely refined.

Steve

[rdorman]

We know you don't buy into the concept Steve, that is OK. Some day you will find out that it is true... or I will be very suprised

[VRM]

So what types of weapons do you think were moved to Syria?

Steve

[rdorman]

I doubt that any one knows the exact list that was moved. Not only weapons but raw materials for chemical, biologic and even some nuclear materials. There is much speculation that Moscow organized the whole move to cover up its involvement in Iraq's WMD program after the inspectors pulled out in the 90's. There is also speculation that Prime Minister Rafik Hariri assasination was a result of his discovery of WMD's in his country from Iraq. I doubt we will ever know for sure but there is a bunch of evidence and all leads to the conclusion that 'stuff' was moved across the boarder. Little hard facts, but there is some (such as satelite photos).

[REAL 1]

VRM: I would expect you to disagree. We'll find out I was right one day.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by rdorman

I doubt that any one knows the exact list that was moved. Not only weapons but raw materials for chemical, biologic and even some nuclear materials. There is much speculation that Moscow organized the whole move to cover up its involvement in Iraq's WMD program after the inspectors pulled out in the 90's. There is also speculation that Prime Minister Rafik Hariri assasination was a result of his discovery of WMD's in his country from Iraq. I doubt we will ever know for sure but there is a bunch of evidence and all leads to the conclusion that 'stuff' was moved across the boarder. Little hard facts, but there is some (such as satelite photos).

VERY interesting. Still waiting for the news to break. OK, next question. What would keep the administration from revealing the "find"?

Mike

[chopper]

Originally Posted by VRM

I disagree with the concept of Hussein sending any weapons to Iran or Syria.Steve

According to the Guardian in a story last year:

"Because of western sanctions, ostracism and a lack of spare parts, Iran has few modern fighter aircraft, although Russia recently proposed a $1bn sale of 29 Tor-M1 missile systems for anti-aircraft defence. The air force still relies in part on Iraqi MiGs flown to Iran for safety by Saddam Hussein at the start of the Gulf war in 1991 and never returned. Michael Knights, writing in Jane's Intelligence Review, said Iran was likely to try to repel any attack though a mobile defence of "highly integrated local networks of interceptor aircraft and ground-based Sams [surface-to-air missiles]". This would provide "layered protection" for strategic locations such as the Isfahan and Bushehr facilities and Bandar Abbas at the mouth of the Gulf."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1747028,00.html

According to Global Security:

"During Operation Desert Storm the Iraqi Air Force did not seek to challenge Coalition air forces, and nearly half the Iraqi Air Force fled to Iran to escape destruction. Why the IQAF fled to Iran is not precisely known, and the answer may never be fully known. In any case, Iraqi fighters and support aircraft fled for the border -- more than 120 left. Over 200 aircraft were destroyed on Iraqi airfields, and hardened laser-guided bombs devastated Iraq's hardened aircraft shelters. Eventually day-and-night air strikes destroyed or seriously damaged 375 shelters out of a total of 594."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ment-intro.htm

Originally Posted by VRM

If your ground based radars suddenly shut down what is the first thing you are going to do? I would scramble a lot of aircraft in prep for an attack. Perhaps 10-20 Israeli aircraft did not expect to meet a bunch of Syrian fighters, including Mig 29s and 31s (the 31 can perform limited AWACS stuff).

Besides, haven't you ever looked up at a fighter going over? They are not always invisible or silent.
Steve

Expert combat advice from another person who was never in the military. Or did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

[J. T. Toad]

From Steve's link

"Others argued that Huwaysh and other senior Iraqi
offi cials were at the heart of an institutional deception
of Saddam Husayn that convinced him he had
a much stronger weapons arsenal than actually
existed. Allegedly out of fear of Saddam’s reaction,
Huwaysh and his subordinates at MIC faked plans
and designs to show progress in programs that did not
exist. Saddam was not well informed enough to catch
them in their lies and never sought a demonstration
of the newly developed weapons. In the process, MIC
offi cials squandered or embezzled huge amounts of
Iraqi money, and Iraq was left unprotected and unprepared
for war."

so then for all intensive purposes, Saddam, in addition to others, would have believed and purported that they had weapons in their arsenal, thus, it would be perceived that they did exists, as far as they knew, and could be used by a man who had a record of using them.

as evidenced by....

"“if Iraq had these weapons, it would have used
them.”"

he thought he had them, he intended to use them, he would have used them, and they attempted to hide them, with no regard to UN sanctions which he agreed.....

thanks Steve, your defense proves the justification for action.

I have been thinking about you Steve, cause I find what you write laughable... I can only think you find us laughable at our attempts to stymie someone. I ponder if you first draft a post of what you believe and actually post the opposite to see how long of a thread you can create. I can not believe that there is any other explanation for the logic which is applied.

[VRM]

JT,
So what do you think of Brent Scowcroft? Does he posess crazy logic as well?

Steve