Israelis Bomb Nuke Site???

[rdorman]

Mike, there is actually quite a bit of information out there. Some just declassified. If you look back through my posts and do some searches you can find it. From inspectors, to press, to generals, to intelligence agencies. As far as 'find' is concerned... you have to go into Syria, Lebanon, etc! Saddam and his top brass knew that they where going to get their a$$ handed to them. So did the Soviets. There was never a doubt. It is safe to say that Saddam and his top folks acted, sometimes individually, in the interest of self preservation (didn't always work, just ask Saddam). Steel was flowing out of Iraq at estimated rates of 10,000 tons a month coming up before the war. Other raw materials as well (including cash). I recall one inspector talking about how there was hardly any steel left after the invasion. If I was one of them, and knew that my country was going to fall, and that the U.S. was going to hunt me down, I would be looking for friends out of country any where I can find them. Need a place to hide and big dollar bribes go a long way. I doubt any one will ever really know the entire truth... at least not for a long, long time.

[bomelia]

Why "steel"?

Mike

[VRM]

RDorman and Evan,
The ISG and UN inspectors reports shows no evidence of any kind of current WMD manufacture in Iraq, and no evidence that anything was moved (including sattelite photos). What evidence do you have to the contrary? They did find old (useless) chemical weapon delivery systems. They also found other conventional weapons systems that were out of spec with what was allowed. The destruction of those made significant progress before we invaded.

Hussein did not trust his neighbours (mostly Iran, but also Syria to an extent) - they were a big reason why he wanted WMD in the first place. If he wanted WMD to possibly use against his neighbours he is certainly not going to send those same WMD to them for safekeeping. And he did have access to plenty of cash, but he obviously did not trust his neighbours enough to keep him safe even with the bribe potential.

If anything does happen it will be from a different country making its own WMD. And there is a good chance that they will be making their own WMD because they already know what we do to a country that does not have WMD.

Mike,
I've been thinking about that for a few days now. I've not come up with an answer that fits perfectly, but I have a few possibilities:
1. Israel - They were making a strike (practise or real) on Iran, got detected, dropped tanks/ordnance and ran. Problem is - it is the wrong direction for Bushehr. It is not that far out of the way to get to Tehran or Natanz, though. Syrias ambassador has said that Israel hit nothing, but dropped munitions and tanks and left. Taking all sides comments (or lack thereof) into account this one seems to make the most sense to me.

2. North Korea - they may have been selling bits of their nuke program to Syria. It was hit and destroyed, and the US offered NK cash/loans/whatever to stop selling stuff to others. SIlence was part of the deal. And Syria does not want world opinion to turn more against them, so they are being quiet too.

4. US - We supplied Israel with suspected co-ordinates of a weapons/WMD cache, and those co-ordinates turned out to be wrong. We don't need any more intelligence screw-ups, so we agree (with Israel) to keep it quiet.

Steve

[J. T. Toad]

Originally Posted by VRM

RDorman and Evan,
The ISG and UN inspectors reports shows no evidence of any kind of current WMD manufacture in Iraq, and no evidence that anything was moved (including sattelite photos). What evidence do you have to the contrary? They did find old (useless) chemical weapon delivery systems. They also found other conventional weapons systems that were out of spec with what was allowed. The destruction of those made significant progress before we invaded.


Steve

this logic reminds me of something....

oh yeah...

"if the glove don't fit, you must acquit!"

Satellite surveillance never showed the Migs he buried/preserved/stored either. so it mustn't have happened despite the discovery otherwise. DO you prescribe to the notion that the paraphernalia is legal even though the substance isn't? He broke the rules he agreed to, regardless of the outcome, you pay the piper.

Look at it this way, a local eight year old brought a 9mm to school. He has been suspended and possible expulsion. Based on your reasoning, the school district should have done nothing, as the weapon was unloaded. Sadaam had the capability and resources to complete/generate...

oh nevermind, this isn't worth the ATP typing this out.

[rdorman]

VRM, I understand your resistance but please read a little more carefully and do a little research. I have already posted information that with a few minutes in google, you can find the 'evidence' that you claim is lacking. From the NGIC documents recently declassified, to John Shaw of the ITS, Russian Spetsnatz, Satellite images of extensive large vehicle traffic moving across the Syrian border, Georges Sada, the list goes on and on and on and on. We know that weapons have a shelf life and even with what was destroyed or moved, the few that where left where still lethal according to the NGIC. We also know that Saddam did not trust his neighbors. Heck, the guy didn't even trust family to the point he executed a few of them. Not everything in the days leading up to the war was done with his knowledge nor permission. Besides, does any one think that Russia will give a two bit dictator a choice? I have never been in possession of any evidence of any kind. Even if I did, I would deny it

I just think if you dig a little deeper, you may be suprised what you find. Not to say it will change your mind or anything. All the intrigue before the invasion would make one heck of a spy novel!

[rdorman]

Just one report for everyones reading enjoyment: http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/...s-2004-435.pdf

[rdorman]

Light reading: https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/...04/addenda.pdf

The ISG conclusion back in March of '05 was that an 'official' movement of WMD before the war was 'unlikely', but it was unable to rule out unofficial movements of WMD.

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by VRM

Mike,
I've been thinking about that for a few days now. I've not come up with an answer that fits perfectly, but I have a few possibilities:
1. Israel - They were making a strike (practise or real) on Iran, got detected, dropped tanks/ordnance and ran. Problem is - it is the wrong direction for Bushehr. It is not that far out of the way to get to Tehran or Natanz, though. Syrias ambassador has said that Israel hit nothing, but dropped munitions and tanks and left. Taking all sides comments (or lack thereof) into account this one seems to make the most sense to me.

But Syria's AD went silent, so how did they detect? And, if Syria was "in the know" then that says they were assisting in the "attack" on Iran.

[VRM]

Mike,
If your ground based radars suddenly shut down what is the first thing you are going to do? I would scramble a lot of aircraft in prep for an attack. Perhaps 10-20 Israeli aircraft did not expect to meet a bunch of Syrian fighters, including Mig 29s and 31s (the 31 can perform limited AWACS stuff).

Besides, haven't you ever looked up at a fighter going over? They are not always invisible or silent.

I don't think that Syria is going to take sides with Israel any time soon.

Steve

[rdorman]

Originally Posted by VRM

I don't think that Syria is going to take sides with Israel any time soon.

On that we can certainly agree! More Ba'thist. Just like in Lebanon, Jordon, Yemem, Sudan and of course formally, Iraq. Of course, lets not forget as-Sa'iqa among the Palestinians (who ever they are ) member organization of the PLO is the Syrian bA'th party branch.