insurance reform

[427 S/O]

Wonder if there are any stats on claims for covered classic/hot rod owners?, My insurance agent said he was making good money off guys like us because he knows we (most) take exceptional care, keep them garaged and drive very few miles.

[CobraDan]

I live here in Florida for the past 10 years and the larger home insurance companies are dropping home insurance like crazy as they got badly burnt 2 years back to back because of Hurricanes. If Cobras were only parked in there garages and not driven on the streets no one would have been killed in a cobra but that’s not the case and when this happens large sums of money are paid out and every insurance company likes collecting money from customers not paying out to customers. The first Cobra insurance company I was with got burnt and stopped writing Cobra insurance, they didn’t drop me but my premium just got higher each year until I looked else where for insurance. Soon I will be looking for home insurance as everyone I know has been dropped here in Florida.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Vette Killer;

I understand your point and agree on a lot of it,but, in a free interprise society, the insurance companies can and do compete for business like any other company......Cobra business is NOT something a lot of companies want or need, it is very risky at best,usually a losing proposition............

Different companies charge different rates much the same way other companies do...for example: In my small home town there is an Auto Zone, there is also another one in a large city 25 miles away. In the large city Auto Zone, prices are generally 25% lower for the same item than in my home town Auto Zone, because of competition in the large city....I don't like it, but it is a fact of life, much the same way with auto insurance..........

Most companies DON'T want to insure Cobras,hence the high rates....they have been proven to be a losing proposition, it's as simple as that..........shop around, there are deals to be found, it just takes a little time and leg work.............

On another note; if you were the head of any auto insurance company, what would you rather insure:

1.- a 2400 pound Cobra with 500+ hp driven by a guy that may or may not have much if any expirence driving high powered cars......

2. a 50+ year old guy with a classic 66 Vette that probably will get driven a few hundred miles a year if that and then very carefully when driven..
??????????????????????????

David

[vette killer]

It's not FREE enterprise if the law requires you to have it.

[CobraDan]

You could always do as the new Governor of Florida has done and mandate
that the insurance companies give us customers cheaper rates after their humongous increases after the hurricane seasons of 2004-2005 and their huge pay outs. Rather than go along with the governor most are dropping home owners insurance in the state of Florida and looking for states that have minimum danger from disasters that could bring about a claim and moving on.

[jhv48]

Classic Vette versus home built Cobra?
Apples to oranges.
I agree that every insurance company rates each vehicle differently. Rates are a result of the history of claims for the vehicle (potential exposure), the driving experience of the driver and his driving record and insurance company reserves. Insurance companies are required to retain billions of dollars in reserve to pay future claims. When companies lower rates due to lower than expected claims costs, they attract new customers and ultimately their exposure, read that claims, increase resulting in them raising premiums to rebuild their reserves. The thing to do is SHOP AROUND! Try to find a company that is trying to attract new customers with reduced rates. But don't be surprised when they raise your rates in a year or so due to the increased number and severity of claims that they incur from the new customers. This is the nature of the insurance cycle.
To tell you the truth, how many of us would put up millions of dollars to insure a vehicle that some guy put together in his garage with all the wrong tools and used parts he pulled out of a junked mustang? No quality control, no supervision, no inspections. How do I know that he didn't put the shock on upside down, forget to tighten down the control arm, leave the lug nuts finger tightened, use a shock that is about to fail? But I'm supposed to ASSUME he did EVERYTHING right and then put a rocket engine into it and is going to drive it like a dragster. You should get on your knees and thank God someone is willing to back your build with their billions of $$$.
If I was us, and I am, I would shut the f--k up and fly under the radar to the best of my ability and pay my insurance company and be thankful that I can even get insurance on these beasts. Each and every one of us is just one mistake from driving off a cliff, or spinning donuts in the middle of the freeway. We know what these monsters can do. The insurance companies don't.
Stop poking the bear with a stick!
We may find that whatever adjustments they make may just exclude us completely. Remember, they don't need our business, and they don't HAVE TO insure us! These things are never stolen, but they are often crashed, resulting in thousands of dollars in repairs unless another party is involved, then possibly millions. Most companies accommodate these rockets as a convenience to their loyal clients that have multiple policies with them. I have all my policies with State farm and they insure my Cobra for $630/ year with the same coverages as my three other cars. No mileage restriction, and a stated value of $40K. Am I happy? You bet!
Pay your premium and try not to kill yourself. The more accidents we get in, the more red flags go up until finally they wake up and realize that they are insuring guided missles with wheels and mostly inexperienced pilots. Guess what happens next! EXCLUSION!

[Buzz]

Wise words by jhv48 above. Much as we would like to, we cannot expect to have our cars classified and treated the same as FACTORY BUILT classic cars. And Killer, if you think kit car drivers can muster a powerful lobby, think for a minute about the lobbying power of the insurance industry if we push and they decide to push back. Close scrutiny of our hobby will reveal exactly what was described above. If the insurance companies got motivated, they (or any other credible, relevant institution) could initiate the kind of scrutiny and regulation of us and our cars that could shut the replica/kit car industry down for good. It is an amazing bit of luck that, given the extent of the big brotherism and litigation-happiness in today's society, we are even allowed to build and drive these things on public roads. I enjoy a good, worthwhile battle as much as anybody else, but as someone rightly stated above, consider carefully the potential outcome before you start poking that sleeping bear.

[vette killer]

part of the proposed legislation will be that home built or modified cars be inspected by an independent and certified auto technician to catch builder's mistakes and to forestall the arguement that homebuilt or amateur built cars are unsafe. Unlike the auto insurance industry's paragon of safety-the factory built car.Some of those that come to mind are exploding pinto and explorer gas tanks (insert here all of the safety recalls you can remember).
Remember,they have to insure us and treat us fairly if the law requires them to do so.You can do what you want in your state,but I prefer to fight the bear.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by vette killer

You can do what you want in your state,but I prefer to fight the bear.

CHOMP!!! MUNCH...CRUNCH...BUUUUUUUUURRRRP!!!

[jhv48]

Ever see a pic of a 41 willys stacked up against a guard rail? Me neither!
Once again, apples to oranges!

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Vette Killer;

I applaud your tanacity to fight this thing you think is wrong, but, in the end,you know what you wil accomplish?????????

You may indeed cause most, if not all insurance companies to quit insuring ALL "kit cars"...........No big deal to me, I don't have one, I do have 2 65 Mustangs though.........

Paid my yearly premium this week on the 65 Fastback. I have an agrreed-on value policy,6 figure limits and NO deductable on comp or coll.,2,500 mile yearly driving limit (I can go to 5000 miles if need be), and get a 10% deduction yearly cause in 12 years I have never had to file a claim (thankfully) and I'm very happy to pay $172.00 a year to them....

Stop poking the bear with a stick!
We may find that whatever adjustments they make may just exclude us completely. Remember, they don't need our business, and they don't HAVE TO insure us! These things are never stolen, but they are often crashed, resulting in thousands of dollars in repairs unless another party is involved, then possibly millions. Most companies accommodate these rockets as a convenience to their loyal clients that have multiple policies with them. I have all my policies with State farm and they insure my Cobra for $630/ year with the same coverages as my three other cars. No mileage restriction, and a stated value of $40K. Am I happy? You bet!
Pay your premium and try not to kill yourself. The more accidents we get in, the more red flags go up until finally they wake up and realize that they are insuring guided missles with wheels and mostly inexperienced pilots. Guess what happens next! EXCLUSION!

As much as you may not agree with the above statement and think you are being wronged, IT'S THE GOD'S HONEST TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Remember,they have to insure us and treat us fairly if the law requires them to do so.You can do what you want in your state,but I prefer to fight the bear.

I'm not a lawyer, but I do not agree with the above statement or think it is correct.......My understanding is the law requires you to insure your vehicle, the insurance companies offer insurance to people, they set the rates (dictated in part by each states insurance commision) and decide which vehicles they will and will not insure....

I know of a number of insurance companies that WILL NOT insure any kind of motorcycle, I don't know of any law against that!!!!!!! Never heard of any company getting sued for refusing to insure a certain type of vehicle or motorcycle..........

David

[vette killer]

David;
I don't believe it has ever been challenged.

[vette killer]

Just because you didn't see a '41 willys piled up doesn't mean it didn't happen.
What you seem to be telling me is that a 2,000lb 500 horse cobra is more dangerous (to some degree) than a 2,000lb 500 horse something else,(say ,a '32 ford roadster) I just don't buy it.
Milk is one thing, insurance is quite another to me, but all of your arguements have merit and I very much appreciate all of your points of view.As things stand right now the Mt.State Insurance commisioner's office is in the process of researching this question.I do not intent to push very hard but I have left it in their hands. I didn't mention it before,but any legislation would also include hot rods,customs and scratch built cars as well.

[jhv48]

If Safeway doesn't carry the type of milk you want to buy, do you call the FDA and lodge a complaint or just go across the street to another store that does stock it and buy it there?

[Jamo]

Couple of things really frost my ass...

1. Folks who don't think enough of us to join until they decide to get on a phuking soapbox and are looking for support. Then we become best buddies.

2. Folks who talk about the phuking law who know nothing about the phuking law.

I also don't like folks who call employees of companies and start dicking with the poor employee over some company policy, and then brag about it with a conversation transcript to show how phuking cool they are.

Lawyers (at least those outside of Montana) don't use the term "equal protection under the law" foir non-criminal or non-governmental action situations. There is no Constitutional guarantee of insurance. If insurance premiums are based on anything under Title VII (race, color, sex, being a bunghole bandit, disability, religion, etc.), then there is a case of discrimination. There is no such classification protection based upon the size of one's ass or whether someone is an ass.

I'd really love to see it when someone makes a case based upon what phuking car one drives...then someone will try to make a case based upon BB v. SB or what mfg was used.

There are state laws requiring insurance companies who do business in a particular state to provide particular types of insurance if they want to keep doing business in that state. That is generally based on making sure natural disasters are covered. Cobras are not a natural disaster.

We've had this conversation around here several times...amongst regulars...and after a few dozen pages, it always comes back to the need for our own hobby to start a safety and standards program, rather than buck up against private business that can decide (legally) to write us all off in a heartbeat.

I'm also moving this particular POS to the Lounge...

[DAVID GAGNARD]

I was wondering when our resident "legal eagle" would step in with his .02 cents on the matter ............

BTW Jamo: I wholeheartedly agree with ya......but where is the expected "bite me".........

David

[vette killer]

Jamo;
Such anger,such anxiety. I didn't mean to upset you so.This is only a thread about a concept and I don't think there is any danger of me being your best buddy. I was just being polite is all and now I have your opinion which is what I was seeking.No big deal,no worries. If you are as correct as you think you are,and you very well may be correct,then why get so excited?
Actually a self-imposed safety program is a great idea.I just don't see the need to be insulting and dismissive because you disagree.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by vette killer

Jamo;
Such anger,such anxiety. I didn't mean to upset you so.This is only a thread about a concept and I don't think there is any danger of me being your best buddy. I was just being polite is all and now I have your opinion which is what I was seeking.No big deal,no worries. If you are as correct as you think you are,and you very well may be correct,then why get so excited?
Actually a self-imposed safety program is a great idea.I just don't see the need to be insulting and dismissive because you disagree.

Read it again...I don't like this site being used by folks with their own agenda (whatever it may be and whether I or others agree with it or not) when they otherwise didn't participate here beforehand and add someting to the site.

Do you normally walk up to groups of folks you don't know and start spewing whatever it is you're excited about? And how dismissive were you to the insurance carrier's employee?

Also, had you bothered to do a search, you would have found previous discussions about insurance. Obviously, you presumed we're all a bunch of morons and you are the first to think about it. That in and of itself, was insulting!

And stop making statements about the law...you don't know enough about it, and it pains me personally when someone makes assinine statements. That insulted me!

Hostility...yup, for trolls of all types. By making the whiney reference you did, you come off sounding more like a druid from Marin than someone from Jersey or Montana.

Now...you want to hang around and be a part of this place, great...welcome. Tell us about your car and you. We're people too...we like to be kissed and cuddled first.

[vette killer]

Jamo;
I don't really care what does or doesn't frost your ass.If you don't like the thread than don't read it.If you have got some requirement about paying your dues before you speak up about something interesting than you had better post it for all to see.I think you just want to pick a fight because you are the schoolyard bully.Evidence?-Phuking? dicking? "where's the usual 'bite me' comment?" POS?
I actually did a search but didn't find anything about how maybe the playing field has changed since insurance became mandatory.-so sue me.
I found this site this summer and couldn"t get on for months-ask the webmaster,and by that time I was anxious to talk about insurance-OOOOO!felony bad manners!! and since you're asking ,I do go up to total strangers at barbecues,etc. and talk about stuff that interests me and whatever happens from there it has never got me cussed at.NOT ONCE !
I didn't abuse anyone at any insurance company as bad as you abused me in your reply.If you 'READ IT AGAIN" you will see that I even begged her pardon when there was a misunderstanding.
How much do you know about Montana code while practising in California? I'll bet you know very little about the oil refining business but that doesn't stop you from asking questions or giving your opinion on how bad you are getting screwed by big oil! does it? I'll talk about any subject that interests me.Remember freedom of speech?
Jamo; you manufactured crimes to accuse me of and exaggerated things that I might not have done perfectly to epic proportions. The last time I saw debating skills this bad was on the schoolyard in 1968.
you had a good point about BB vs.SB, ie we will come under unwanted scrutiny and the companies will nit pick us to death.It almost got lost in the attempted intimidation.What I am telling you is that your clear,intelligent arguements don't need all the emotional B.S. attached to them but I'm sure this will piss you off as well. I am equally sure that you want the last word and I will garauntee that I will read it, but I am done kicking this particular carcass around.
vette killer