The state of California knows better than everyone else

[Cobrabill]

It just never ends....

YOUR WHEELS
Oil changes every 3,000 miles: not for everyone
Car manufacturers don't recommend such frequent changes for many vehicles -- and all that used oil is bad for the environment.
By Ralph Vartabedian, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
February 27, 2008

"Has it been 3,000 miles yet?" asks a banner hanging outside a Southern California quick oil change outlet.

The message -- also conveyed on stickers placed by many quick oil change shops inside customer windshields -- is to hurry back for another oil change.

But the state of California has a different message: Unnecessary oil changes are wasting money for consumers and creating millions of gallons of hazardous waste in the form of used oil.

Instead of listening to the advice of the car service industry, state officials are asking motorists to follow the recommendations of vehicle manufacturers printed in the owners manuals, which often specify oil changes at 7,000 miles or more. The officials say this would save 21.6 million gallons of oil waste a year.

Although environmental issues have played a role in consumer car-buying behavior, the concern seems to dissipate when it comes to car maintenance -- despite a fairly large toxic stream that results from the operation of the vast majority of motor vehicles.

It's not that consumers are pollution happy. But they are guided by conventional wisdom, handed down from generation to generation, that frequent oil changes can vastly improve the life of their car's engine and reduce costly repairs.

I can't say there is no truth to the conventional wisdom, because certain makes and models are afflicted by oil sludge problems that are helped by frequent oil changes. But the longevity of motor oil has improved remarkably over the decades.

A key turning point came in the 1970s with the phasing out of leaded gasoline, which significantly added to the contamination of engine oil. Since then, engine technology has vastly improved to keep oil cleaner through improved tolerances and crankcase ventilation. And, most important, oil has improved with new types of additives that keep the oil working longer.

Vehicle manufacturers have recognized that their engines don't need oil changes as frequently, but the service industry and consumers have stuck with past practices.

"We are not trying to come across as experts in cars or trying to get in the way of commerce, but if you had a service, wouldn't you want customers to come back every 3,000 miles instead of every 7,500 miles," said Bert Wenzel, who helps run the program for the California Integrated Waste Management Board, a part of the state's Environmental Protection Agency.

A yearlong survey of motorists, concluded in January 2006, found that 73% of California drivers change their oil more frequently than recommended by their vehicle manufacturer. I wonder whether these folks get their teeth cleaned more frequently than recommended by their dentist.

The survey, conducted by Cal State San Marcos, found that about a quarter of drivers used the stickers on their windshield to decide when to get an oil change. Those stickers are widely used by the quick oil change industry, including Jiffy Lube.

Jiffy Lube spokeswoman Virginia Sanchez said the 3,000-mile oil change is justified when vehicles are driven under severe conditions, such as short trips, stop-and-go driving or extreme temperatures.

"A 3,000 severe-service interval holds true for the majority of the cars on the road in the U.S. today," Sanchez said.

That is, in my view, a self-serving overstatement of what severe duty means. All driving, by definition, involves stopping and going. But encountering an occasional traffic jam is different from operating a taxi in Manhattan.

Richard Sullivan also takes issue with that statement. Sullivan, a former General Motors service manager and deputy for field operations and enforcement at the California Bureau of Automotive Repair, a state agency that regulates the car service industry, said the only person who can be a fair judge of whether a vehicle is subject to severe service is an informed consumer.

As an example of severe service, he cited a vehicle used in Lake Tahoe. For an engine, it is far different to make a short trip up a steep mountain grade in freezing weather than a short trip on a flat road in 50-degree Los Angeles winter weather.

EZ Lube, another Southern California chain, uses store banners asking whether it has been 3,000 miles since your last oil change. This company paid a $5-million settlement in December after it was charged with systematically charging Southern California customers for unnecessary repairs on their vehicles -- often brought in for oil changes.

California uses about 152 million gallons of automotive lubricants -- crankcase oil, gearbox oil and transmission fluid -- each year.

About 50 million gallons of that oil is either burned in engines or dripped onto the highway, the board estimates. An additional 14 million gallons disappears, presumably dumped into the ground or storm drains by backyard mechanics, Wenzel said.

That leaves about 88 million of the original 152 million gallons of hazardous waste to be disposed. Every gallon of toxic waste is a big deal and fewer oil changes could help, Wenzel said.

[Jamo]

Actually Bill, on this issue, I think the story (and the State) is right.

The lube places (and many dealerships) do advise ill-informed customers to do way too much on their daily drivers.

Had a moron at a Chevy dealership "advise" me that I needed to change my oil since it had been over 3,000 miles since my last change. Also advised me that I needed to rotate my tires.

Hmmm...2005 C6 Vette using Mobil 1 and different sized (front to rear) unidirectional tires.

[Ron61]

I think you are both correct. Almost daily Jack has someone with a new car come in and want their oil changed and the tires rotated. He tells them to follow the manual and that with todays oils and engines they don't need to be changed every 3K miles and the tires are directional. Most of them don't even know what he is talking about. It has been a long time since I have had a new car, but don't they still have a maintenance schedule where you take the car back to the dealer to have that stuff done?
Jamo, you have a ways to drive now that Turk is in Florida.

Ron

[Cobrabill]

Jamo-there is both sides to this issue.Too many variables to apply either the 7000 miles figure or the 3000 miles figure.Do to my job,the milage accumulation on my toys is extremely low.Using the 7000 mile mark would mean the oil wouldn't be getting dumped for a couple of YEARS.That ain't gonna happen.There are too many types(situations)of service to have a blanket number.

[meat]

I just follow the Owners Manual, which lists different intervals for different driving styles.

If I'm not going to drive the car enough, I don't need to own it. If it takes 'several years' to get to an oil change interval ... then it's an automobile being used as sculpture and it needs to move on to someone who will treat it like the car that it is.

Your pal,
Meat.

[Scott S]

I own a lot of heavy equipment that is ran under the most demanding of conditions. Nearly all of our newest engines are requiring oil changes at 500 hours with a new filter every 250.

I own a 2005 Ford super duty with a hour meter on it after 658 hours it registers 28,556 miles on the odometer. I have changed the oil 3 times. Our company uses a oil testing service and the second oil change was unnecessary and recommended extending the schedule to 12-14K miles. If any of you are at all concerned I would strongly recommend having your oil sampled and tested not only will it may vastly extend your oil change interval but will alert you to possible internal problems.

I hate to say it but I have to agree with CA here, the marketing of oil changes at every 3K is an abuse of a resource.


Scott S

[Jamo]

Bill...at the other end of the spectrum, I put on between two and three thousand a month, depending on the time of the year (and which growing areas are in season).

The Vette has an oil monitor...seems to run down to 25% oil life (when I tend to change it) at about 6-7000 miles.

[Excaliber]

I rarely drive my Jeep, heck I put more miles on my Cobra than the Jeep and I don't drive the Cobra 'that much'. I guess their both sculptures just taking up room. I drive my motorcycle a LOT, every day of the year. So, like Cobrabill, I tend to change my oil based on 'time' rather than miles. While the Jeep may sit for months at a time, it sure comes in handy when I need it to haul something, I think I'll keep it. I start it up at least once a month and bring it to operating temp.

[tcrist]

Has anyone tried to figure out by the manual when do actually do maintance on your vehicle? I have an 06 Silverado and the book reads like sterio instructions. There is no area dedicated for maintance intervals. You have to look in each section to figure out what to do and when to do it. From what I understand it told me to wait until the dash told me to change the oil the first time and then every 3000 miles there after. They actuall told me that if I do not change the oild every 3000 miles it could void my waranty.

Terry

[Rich A]

From what I understand it told me to wait until the dash told me to change the oil the first time and then every 3000 miles there after. They actuall told me that if I do not change the oild every 3000 miles it could void my waranty.

That's a bunch of Bull$hit!
If you follow the maintenance schedule in the owners manual and have documentation that you performed it they can NOT void ANY warranty.

I have followed the maintenance schedule in the owners manual for my driving style for the 10 new cars I have owned since 1991.
Never have they voided any warranty.

[meat]

Originally Posted by Rich A

That's a bunch of Bull$hit!
If you follow the maintenance schedule in the owners manual and have documentation that you performed it they can NOT void ANY warranty.

No, it's not 'Bull$hit' at all. Dealerships void warranties all the time because owners don't take care of their vehicles.

The key is to make sure you have the documentation to prove that you did the work. And even then it's a PITA to prove once your car has been tagged as being out of warranty by a dealership.

Your pal,
Meat.

[Joe Wicked]

I will say this. I just changed the oil in my 07 F150 for the 3rd time. There was almost 6K on it from the last oil change and the oil was good. I am have been using the motorcraft synthetic blend that Ford recommended and the oil was not even completely dark. It still had a brownish color to it. I will be extending the time I take to change the oil. The Mustang however (same oil, same 4.6 mod motor), after 5K is dark, after 6K and I change the oil, I notice a difference in how the engine runs. Idle is smoother and acceleration is smoother as well. I believe there is no set time, and 2 like vehicles will perform differently.

[Bill Bess]

Gee this is a good one!
I've been running motors in both large diesel trucks and gasoline motors for almost 50 years guess what, clean oil and routine maintenance saves you money. You know what they say, "pay me now, or pay me later", good advice.
One thing to understand, manufactures write their manuals to reflect "more maintenance bucks for them", and the government makes them attempt to be environmentally correct so we save our resources. This is all BS,
Just change your oil based on how you use the vehicle..keep it clean and in tune and you will most likely get great service out of the machine.

Best Regards, Bill

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by Rich A

That's a bunch of Bull$hit!
If you follow the maintenance schedule in the owners manual and have documentation that you performed it they can NOT void ANY warranty.

I have followed the maintenance schedule in the owners manual for my driving style for the 10 new cars I have owned since 1991.
Never have they voided any warranty.

Rich A,

The problem is, 3000 miles is the maintance schedule, according to the book. That is what I was trying to get across. I do not agree with the schedule but if I do not follow it they say that it could void my warrenty.

Terry

[PatBuckley]

Originally Posted by meat

No, it's not 'Bull$hit' at all. Dealerships void warranties all the time because owners don't take care of their vehicles.

The key is to make sure you have the documentation to prove that you did the work. And even then it's a PITA to prove once your car has been tagged as being out of warranty by a dealership.

Your pal,
Meat.

Yes, it is BS.

A dealership cannot "void your warranty" if you follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule for your car.

[Rich A]

Meat,
I guess you can't read!!!
I Said

If you follow the maintenance schedule in the owners manual and have documentation that you performed it they can NOT void ANY warranty.

The problem is, 3000 miles is the maintance schedule, according to the book. That is what I was trying to get across. I do not agree with the schedule but if I do not follow it they say that it could void my warrenty.

Terry,
Sorry to hear that your truck requires so much maintenance.
Ask your dealer to provide documentation from GM that states you have to have the oil changed every 3K.
If they can't, I suggestion going to another dealership for you maintenance.

All of my vehicles (GM products) have had a 5K, 7,5K (maintenance schedule in the owners manual) or a oil monitoring system.

[tcrist]

Rich A,

I'll check into that, Thanks.

Terry

[meat]

Originally Posted by PatBuckley

Yes, it is BS.

A dealership cannot "void your warranty" if you follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule for your car.

The warranty can be voided for any number of reasons - not the least of which is not being able to prove that you followed the maintenance schedule for your car, therefore you're incorrect.

Your pal,
Meat.

[meat]

Originally Posted by Rich A

Meat,
I guess you can't read!!!
I Said

I can read just fine ... what you said, however, was an incorrect response to the original post. Therefore, what you said was incorrect.

Your pal,
Meat.

[PatBuckley]

Originally Posted by meat

The warranty can be voided for any number of reasons - not the least of which is not being able to prove that you followed the maintenance schedule for your car, therefore you're incorrect.

Your pal,
Meat.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about - I notice that you are awfully good at making it seem like you do....

The fact is that a dealer cannot void your warranty - it is not up to them to void the warranty. Only the manufacturer can void a warranty on a car.

You also contradicted Rich A for posting "If you follow the maintenance schedule in the owners manual and have documentation that you performed it they can NOT void ANY warranty."

Rich A was correct - you were wrong ---again.

I think you should get your facts straight before you open your mouth again and give out bum information.

Yer pal,

Pat