Airlines losing money, How could they not???

[jams]

I remember buying tickets to CA over 15 years ago for about $350. I just purchased tickets to CA for about $368.

During the past 15 years the cost of fuel has gone up (trippled) as I am sure operating costs have increased. How can they stay in business.

Believe me I am happy with the price?

Something to ponder

[PatBuckley]

Planes are full, prices are low, passengers get treated like crap, safety inspections are skipped, costs are going up.

Seems to me I would raise prices.

I guess those dummies would just as soon go out of business, which they are!

Dummies.

[Excaliber]

Aloha airlines, belly up, no warning. 2000 people 'hit the street', pink slip in hand. We got THREE airlines here with barely enough people to support TWO. Mesa Air Group came in with $39 one way fare to the outer islands, down from a $100. The other two followed suit, it became clear over a year ago, SOMEBODY was going down. Who ever ran out of money first, that would be Aloha...

You can bank on it, fares will be back to $100 shortly!

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Aloha airlines, belly up, no warning. 2000 people 'hit the street', pink slip in hand. We got THREE airlines here with barely enough people to support TWO. Mesa Air Group came in with $39 one way fare to the outer islands, down from a $100. The other two followed suit, it became clear over a year ago, SOMEBODY was going down. Who ever ran out of money first, that would be Aloha...

You can bank on it, fares will be back to $100 shortly!

Ernie,
Mesa was sued by Hawaiian and won a huge settlement for predatory practices against Mesa. Mesa got caught red handed with internal documents showing that they knew they could not make money at these prices and they had no real business plan, rather their goal was to bankrupt Aloha and Hawaiian in order to take over on their own. I'm no corporate attorney, but in addition to being obviously sleazy, that's apparently illegal as well. Aloha had a suit ready to be heard soon. Even though they went under, the suit will still be heard, and popular legal opinion in the industry says that Aloha (or their creditors) will prevail for another huge settlement. This will probably put Mesa under, which for almost all in the industry other than those working for Mesa is a good thing. Mesa is the pond scum of the industry.

[Excaliber]

Thanks for bringing up the 'rest of the story' 767Jockey, you summed it up nicely. Might be to late for Aloha, but I think they will prevail in the next suit, like Hawaiian did in the first. Question is, will either airlines actually collect any money, and will it be to little to late for Hawaiian?

Mesa really pisses me off, I hope somebody goes to jail over their actions!

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Thanks for bringing up the 'rest of the story' 767Jockey, you summed it up nicely. Might be to late for Aloha, but I think they will prevail in the next suit, like Hawaiian did in the first. Question is, will either airlines actually collect any money, and will it be to little to late for Hawaiian?

Mesa really pisses me off, I hope somebody goes to jail over their actions!

Join the club - Mesa pisses EVERYONE off!

[427 S/O]

As I understand, United has also terminated their agreement with MESA?.

[427 S/O]

Let's add a little insult to injury..........

NEW YORK, April 7, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Aftermarket Technology Corp. (Nasdaq: ATAC - News) will replace Mesa Air Group Inc. (Nasdaq: MESA - News) in the S&P SmallCap 600 after the close of trading on Wednesday, April 9, 2008. As of today's close of trading, Mesa Air Group had a market capitalization of approximately $33 million, ranking 600th in the index.

[imagine2frolic]

Jams,

In 1960 I flew from SFO to Chicago for $300. I was only 9, so I don't remember if that was round trip, but I believe it was.....1960

[J. T. Toad]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

they knew they could not make money at these prices and they had no real business plan, rather their goal was to bankrupt Aloha and Hawaiian in order to take over on their own.

How does this differ from Walmart's business practices?

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by J. T. Toad

How does this differ from Walmart's business practices?

Who says they differ? I don't know much about Wal Mart other than what I read, none of which is good. I live on Long Island in NY, and believe it or not we have very little presence here by Wal Mart, they're pretty much a non factor around here. I kind of like it that way, reading what I do about them.

[Excaliber]

Actually it differs a bunch, MESA was flat out busted with their hand in their cookie jar for illegally using 'data' they acquired under false pretenses. The data laid out the entire business plan(s) of the competitors. With that knowledge they had a significant advantage. To hide the evidence the CEO deleted vast quantities of data from his computer, then he got busted for doing so. His 'excuse'? He was deleting 'porn' that was against company policy, HIS porn. Of course MESA slapped him on the hand while they handed him a very nice 'retirement' package. No question, the guy took a hit for the team. There is tough competition and then there is 'predatory' competition, there is a difference. By the way, the jury didn't buy the 'erasing porn' excuse, they saw right through it.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Actually it differs a bunch, MESA was flat out busted with their hand in their cookie jar for illegally using 'data' they acquired under false pretenses. The data laid out the entire business plan(s) of the competitors. With that knowledge they had a significant advantage. To hide the evidence the CEO deleted vast quantities of data from his computer, then he got busted for doing so. His 'excuse'? He was deleting 'porn' that was against company policy, HIS porn. Of course MESA slapped him on the hand while they handed him a very nice 'retirement' package. No question, the guy took a hit for the team. There is tough competition and then there is 'predatory' competition, there is a difference. By the way, the jury didn't buy the 'erasing porn' excuse, they saw right through it.

Mesa is a class act from top to bottom, huh?

[Jamo]

Yup...low prices allow the great unwashed to fly. That's what Greyhound is for.

Used to enjoy flying...better schedules from areas that needed it (AirCal and PSA alternating every half hour here in California), good looking folks serving you instead of unionized *****y folks, fewer kids crying, fewer third worlders with five generations of family stuffing the overheads with kim chi pots, etc.

Same thing has happened to Vegas...but they are at least turning away from the Wally World persona for their properties of late.

JMHO as a business traveler, and somewhat in jest.

[Ron61]

I used to fly out of San Francisco a lot and flew PSA many times back in the dark ages. They were one of my favorite airlines. I don't even know if Redding has any flights now, as they used to have one in the morning and one in the afternoon. Then United pulled out and some other small commuter line came in, but I don't know if they are still in business or not. As for the price of tickets, the company paid for mine and one day when I was signing for the tickets I looked at the prices as I was going from Redding to S.F. and from there to Chicago. The price from Redding to S.F. was more than the one from S.F. to Chicago by a few dollars. And the maintenance at Redding sucked too.

Ron

[J. T. Toad]

It sounds very similar to the Dwayne Goode lawsuit against Walmart. Walmart was accused of selling beneath wholesale cost, at least until the competition, usually local, went under.

[jams]

Ron,

I liked the attached picture. I don't think it is a problem, just some mechanic trying to cool off the engine to gain a few more horespower.

[Ron61]

Jams,

That picture more or less says it all for the Redding air situation. They are to small to get a major carrier, and can't seem to keep any of the smaller ones. Most people that I know now who are flying on business drive to Sacramento and don't even bother to go to the Redding airport. I always preferred to fly out of San Francisco as it had far more choices and a heck of a lot more pretty women running around the terminal than Sacramento.

Ron

[Excaliber]

I lived 'out of suit case' for about 4 or 5 years when I was with 'corporate'. Sure it was fun and exciting, for awhile. Then it just got to be another lonely Saturday night in some really nice motel in some fabulous location and looking forward to another crowded flight just to get home.

Frankly, I'm pretty well burned out on flying/traveling anywhere, maybe in a few years I'll get back in the saddle... Mean while, I'm pretty content to sit in the backyard and watch my banana trees grow.

[clayfoushee]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Yup...low prices allow the great unwashed to fly. That's what Greyhound is for.

Used to enjoy flying...better schedules from areas that needed it (AirCal and PSA alternating every half hour here in California), good looking folks serving you instead of unionized *****y folks, fewer kids crying, fewer third worlders with five generations of family stuffing the overheads with kim chi pots, etc.

Same thing has happened to Vegas...but they are at least turning away from the Wally World persona for their properties of late.

JMHO as a business traveler, and somewhat in jest.

So Ron, my friend, are you advocating a return to Federal regulation of the industry so we can return to the days you are waxing so poetic about above?

It was very nice for the airline industry in those "halycon," pampered passenger, regulated days. Everyone was guaranteed a profit, and the government decided who flew where, how often, how much passengers were charged, how much employees got paid, etc. If there was an employee strike, there was a legal mutual aid pact among the airlines, and the ones not on strike were allowed to assess a surcharge in order to pay the struck airline for lost revenue.

Ah, the good old days . . . Given the way things are going, perhaps we shall see a return to that, because there will be no other choice except driving.

Of course, this is also posted "somewhat in jest," but you get what you pay for in a free-enterprise system, and its all a function of supply and demand.