Texas holdouts committing Suicide

[392cobra]

The Officials went house to house trying to convince those morons to get out.When they said they were staying they were definetly told to write their SS# on themselves.Just in case their bodies were found.
A light bulb went off in few people's head upon being told that and did leave.

[hey,littlecobra]

on the Yahoo homepage headline---
"Ike roars ashore in Texas
Authorities fear that tens of thousands of people who defied orders to flee will need rescue. » 1,250 calls for help"

that part stinks. I can certainly understand not wanting to leave your home. It seems every few years (or one or two) there are big storms/warnings, and many leave. Then they return to 'not that big a deal'. Well... this one was predicted to be a big one, and many of the folks said 'well they've said that before, i'm not leaving...'
so.... they stayed. I know they won't be left stranded to die on their rooftops, but it really bugs me that there have been over 1400 calls to 911.
you chose to stay, then stay. get plenty of water, provisions, all that stuff. then don't cry for help when it DOES turn into a disaster.
just my $.o2.

I do feel badly for my couple of friends that have beach houses. I wonder if they're still standing.
I think the Texas hurricane insurance plan is going to go belly up with this!

Kristen

[FWB]

buzz, dale ernhardt was stupid he died because he liked to take off his seat belt
for his ego lap. in the end it killed him.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by hey,littlecobra

I do feel badly for my couple of friends that have beach houses. I wonder if they're still standing.
Kristen

Some would say it serves them right for building a house near the beach in the first place. They knew the risks!

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by FWB

buzz, dale ernhardt was stupid he died because he liked to take off his seat belt
for his ego lap. in the end it killed him.

Is that what happened? I never heard that one before!

[427 S/O]

Most stay for fear of theft, kinda hard to imagine 'stuff' being that valuable but, it is to some folks. Katrina is a pretty good example....imo.

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by FWB

buzz, dale ernhardt was stupid he died because he liked to take off his seat belt
for his ego lap. in the end it killed him.

Where did you get this from? I never heard of that. Not saying that it is or is not true, just never heard it before.

[Ron61]

Buzz,

I never meant that I hoped anyone lost their lives. I meant that I don't think they have any right to cry for help and have other people have to risk their lives and time trying to get to them when they had plenty of time to leave, That idiot woman that had the bar at Galveston and they showed her on TV with some friends and she said they were just going to sit and have a few beers and watch the hurricane. They get the same reactions from some idiots when they go to evacuate a town or places around here for the fires. One fool actually shot at a patrol car when they went to try to get him to leave. They never had enough resources to send back up and just left him. They found what was left of him about 100 yards from the remains of his house as he had tried to run out when the fire got there. Do I feel sorry for him No. Am I happy that he died NO.

I have spent most of the morning watching TV and the first pictures coming in and it looks as if Houston got hammered pretty good and they are saying that Dallas could get some heavy rain and some wind, but not real bad wind. The last track they showed, it looks as if it is gong to cross Arkansas and Oklahoma with a lot of rain and some wind. Where my cousin lives they are saying they may get up to 10" or rain.

Ron

[Buzz]

An excerpt from the investigation report on NASCAR.com:

Raddin said that Earnhardt's death was not the result of a single cause, but that a combination of several unusual factors triggered his death.

"These (factors) included the uncommon severity and trajectory of the car's impact with the wall, an immediately prior collision with (Ken Schrader's car) that put him out of position, and a separation of the left lap belt under load that allowed greater motion within the car," Raddin said.

Raddin later said that he believed that Earnhardt might still have perished even had the belt remained intact, and that was backed up by a critical excerpt from the report:

"The seatbelt separation cannot be isolated as the sole cause of Dale Earnhardt's death. While the separation of the lap belt increased the potential for serious injury, the precise timing of the separation during the impact is unknown.

"As the experts explain, the crash was very severe, several events coincided in a unique manner to produce a tragic result, and none of them can be singled out as the sole cause. In other words, it is impossible to determine with certainty whether Dale Earnhardt would or would not have survived if the lap belt had remained intact."

Much evidence regarding the seat belt in question was included in the report, via an 11-point synopsis:


1. The belt system was found loose and displaced to the right.

2. There was no opportunity for cutting.

3. No one at the accident scene could confirm that the belt was intact or separated.

4. The medical examiner photographs show a separated belt.

5. The left lap belt has been secured since the accident.

6. DNA and other evidence confirm the separated left lap belt in NASCAR's possession is the belt from the Earnhardt accident.

7. Fiber analysis shows that the belt was torn under stress and not cut.

8. The pattern of injuries is consistent with separation of the belt during impact.

9. The anchored portion of the left lap belt show that it was "dumped," meaning the seat belt's webbing is pulled or moved significantly to one side of the metal adjustment device through which the webbing is threaded.

10. Simpson Race Products experts concur that the left lap belt separated during the impact.

11. The chain of custody demonstrates that there was no opportunity for anyone to invent a separated lap belt.

Although the belt was clearly broken, Bill Simpson, who founded the company that manufactured the belt, continues to place the blame on the belt's installation. He was in attendance Tuesday, but said little at the urging of the herd of lawyers that surrounded him.

Raddin also concentrated on the medical aspect of the investigation, which included an in-depth look at Earnhardt's extensive injuries, including eight broken ribs, a broken sternum, a broken left ankle, a broken left clavicle and several abrasions.

[FWB]

was in the nascar report after the crash investigation

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I was saddened to hear about a freighter in the Gulf with something like 22 people the CG was trying to rescue. The boat is disabled and drifting. Due to high winds and waves they were forced to call off the rescue and the boat will try to ride out the storm on it's own.

I was angered by it. They new the storm was coming and they effectively tried to beat the train to the crossing. Time and resources that could have been used to try to get more people off the island, were used to try and rescue the boat. I am glad they did not die, but come on I am tired of having to pay because someone else cannot act responsibly. I do not expect a huge damaging storm when it hits me today through tomorrow, but I have plenty of non perishable food, gallons of bottled water, emergency candles, medical supplies and batteries for the radio. I am prepared for an extended time without power. I don't expect to need it, but it is what is called for just in case. I went out last night and bought 2 candles, and some more spare batteries as I was low on those items. The rest of the stuff I keep regularly as we do have tornadoes in this area and I may need the stuff if a tornado comes through. I live outside of the city, so power outages from storms are actually quite common for me.

While I understand about the racing analogy, I want to put a spin on it. What if 1 week before the race you can tell the driver that it looks like that in turn 5 on lap 2 there is going to be a massive pileup and only 2 cars will make it through undamaged. There will be fires and the crew will only be able to get to the outside few cars before the rest burn to death. Your starting position will put you in the inside of the pileup and outside the reachable zone. This will happen and there is a 75% chance this will happen exactly like said, and 25% chance you will be one of the ones saved. How many of them would climb in the car? I am sure some will, but I am also sure some will not. We knew this storm was coming, the actual landfall area was being narrowed down daily. Another issue is that driver puts on a fire suit, is in a car designed to take an impact and keep the driver as safe as possible, has a 5 or in some cases a 6 point harness, helmet, HANS device, specially designed seat, etc... Some of the holdouts are sitting in a bar on the beach. I see a big difference from something unpredictable happening and watching a storm come, refusing to get out of the way and when it is too late call for help. I don't wish anyone dead, by any means, I wish people be accountable for their actions.

Didn't mean for this to come off like a rant, it is just how I feel.

[jshel1]

I actually had someone in the lab yesterday (Friday morning) whom I was having a discussion with regarding delivery time on some of their specimens. I told her that we would definitely have her specimens ready to hand off in order for her to work on through the weekend. (This "ready by the weekend" is a common tactic I employ to test an "eager" post-doc or graduate student's resolve.)

The conversation went on... "I won't be able to work on them this weekend; my cousin is getting married in Houston." "What about the storm," I said.

Ms. Soyombo replied, "all of the family still has not made a decision, we may all drive in on Saturday morning."

There was utter silence among my five technicians... all sheepishly glancing at one another, until someone mentioned something about contraflow.

[imagine2frolic]

Buzz,

I didn't read any one wishing death on these people. You got to admit it is pathetic to put youtrself in harm's way. Then expect someone who has warned you to come to your rescue, and place themselves in harm's way.

I don't think the car, and sailing comparison is equal at all. Waiting on a sandbar to be faced with a 20ft wall of water is not smart. I don't feel bad for the people who faced suicide by staying. I feel bad for the people who loved them that have to live with the loss. I stick by my words. It is a thinning of the gene pool.

[tcrist]

Originally Posted by Buzz

An excerpt from the investigation report on NASCAR.com:

Quote:
Raddin said that Earnhardt's death was not the result of a single cause, but that a combination of several unusual factors triggered his death.

"These (factors) included the uncommon severity and trajectory of the car's impact with the wall, an immediately prior collision with (Ken Schrader's car) that put him out of position, and a separation of the left lap belt under load that allowed greater motion within the car," Raddin said.

Raddin later said that he believed that Earnhardt might still have perished even had the belt remained intact, and that was backed up by a critical excerpt from the report:

"The seatbelt separation cannot be isolated as the sole cause of Dale Earnhardt's death. While the separation of the lap belt increased the potential for serious injury, the precise timing of the separation during the impact is unknown.

"As the experts explain, the crash was very severe, several events coincided in a unique manner to produce a tragic result, and none of them can be singled out as the sole cause. In other words, it is impossible to determine with certainty whether Dale Earnhardt would or would not have survived if the lap belt had remained intact."

Much evidence regarding the seat belt in question was included in the report, via an 11-point synopsis:


1. The belt system was found loose and displaced to the right.

2. There was no opportunity for cutting.

3. No one at the accident scene could confirm that the belt was intact or separated.

4. The medical examiner photographs show a separated belt.

5. The left lap belt has been secured since the accident.

6. DNA and other evidence confirm the separated left lap belt in NASCAR's possession is the belt from the Earnhardt accident.

7. Fiber analysis shows that the belt was torn under stress and not cut.

8. The pattern of injuries is consistent with separation of the belt during impact.

9. The anchored portion of the left lap belt show that it was "dumped," meaning the seat belt's webbing is pulled or moved significantly to one side of the metal adjustment device through which the webbing is threaded.

10. Simpson Race Products experts concur that the left lap belt separated during the impact.

11. The chain of custody demonstrates that there was no opportunity for anyone to invent a separated lap belt.

Although the belt was clearly broken, Bill Simpson, who founded the company that manufactured the belt, continues to place the blame on the belt's installation. He was in attendance Tuesday, but said little at the urging of the herd of lawyers that surrounded him.

Raddin also concentrated on the medical aspect of the investigation, which included an in-depth look at Earnhardt's extensive injuries, including eight broken ribs, a broken sternum, a broken left ankle, a broken left clavicle and several abrasions.





Maybe I misunderstood the previous post. What I read in the post was that Dale unhooked his belt on purpose on the last lap I.E. EGO LAP.

I read into this last post that the separated belt was done in the accident. I see no where that they think that he took off his belt while driving.

Terry

[stuartb]

I am going to compare it to what happens where I live. I live in Colorado and during the winter we sometimes have avalanches. They give avalanche conditions for the day, and if you are going into the backcountry/forest you are supposed to check them. People go all the time the smart ones check the avalanche forecast and if it is a bad forecast they don't go and if it is good they go. If it is bad and they go then get caught in the backcountry and have to call for help, when it is all over they get fined and if the rescuers are injured or killed the dumbies that went out are responsible for the outcome. That is how this should be. But they should have left. They had plenty of time to leave. I could understand if it was a sudden thing that no one knew was coming but come on use your head and do the smart thing.

[392cobra]

Ernie,
Your non-stop whining like a little girl is really starting to get old.

[Ron61]

Just copied these two paragraphs from the headline news on my front page. At least they are relevant to this thread.

At first light, it was unclear how many may have perished, and authorities mobilized for a huge search-and-rescue operation to reach the more than 100,000 people who ignored warnings that any attempt to ride the storm out could bring "certain death."

"The unfortunate truth is we're going to have to go in ... and put our people in the tough situation to save people who did not choose wisely. We'll probably do the largest search-and-rescue operation that's ever been conducted in the state of Texas," said Andrew Barlow, spokesman for Gov. Rick Perry.

Ron

[427 S/O]

Thank you Fred...........

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Joe Wicked, the ship was LEAVING port to get OUT of the way of the storm which it knew was coming. It made it about 90 miles out when the engines quit.

If that is the case, then I do feel for them. The story as it was reported here in DFW was that they were trying to cut across the storm track before it hit, not that they were trying to get out of port before the storm hit. Those 2 different stories are very different. My feelings toward it were the same as those people who try to beat the train to the crossing. I feel for their families, but not them. I based my assumptions and feeling on how the story was reported.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by tcrist

Quote:
Maybe I misunderstood the previous post. What I read in the post was that Dale unhooked his belt on purpose on the last lap I.E. EGO LAP.

I read into this last post that the separated belt was done in the accident. I see no where that they think that he took off his belt while driving.

Terry

I'm with you Terry. That's why I posted the report. Nowhere does it even speculate that the seatbelt was deliberately unhooked.


Going back to the huricane thing, HLC made a valid point. People become desensitized after boarding up and battening down or evacuating several times only to find that the storm either never arrives or does little damage when it does. A new warning is issued and they weigh the "historical" probabilities against the risk and hassle of evac and end up making a stupid decision.

I've seen it here many times but I've also seen the terror in a drowning person's eyes up close and personal and I've seen and felt the pain of losing a loved one. Trust me, I've faced some nasty situations and done what I had to do. If you think I'm just a liberal wimp you're mistaken and I'm not prone to whining, but I see little opportunity for humor and political satire in the death and destruction of a hurricane - no matter how stupid the victims were.

If you've never jumped into pounding, rocky surf and belted a bleeding, panicked woman between the eyes to stun her and stop her from clawing at your face so you can get both your butts to safety or tried unsuccessfully to revive a man on the beach while his wife kneels there praying, your experience with mayhem may just be limited to watching it on tv from the comfort of your barcalounger. In that case let's just say I understand your points but we'll continue to differ on the details.